Where Everybody Knows You're Numb

BoxDog wrote:

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. And does anyone at all care that Chris Dodd knew full well about the 165 million in current AIG bonus payouts and lied about them, before he told the truth about them? He didn't do, or know about that all by himself. Did he?

oh i care. when i lived in ct i wrote to this guy all the time and was always impressed by the answers i received and not all were written by staff. he always too the time to explain his votes whereas the other idiot senator lieberman wrote back and said hey if you dont like the way i vote, vote for someone else in the next election. i remember dodd as being the best senator ct ever had until the past few years. i first became upset with him when he helped to approve the outrageous credit card interest scams under the guise of protecting the people of ct from having their credit lines frozen or cancelled. this is another example of corporate blackmail and it often seems to work because we dont have legislators who will say no. i cant put the whole aig fiasco on dodd tho. he had a lot of help from someone in the treasury dept who told him to add that little get out of jail free card.

dodd is up next for reelection and for once hes vulnerable. first for the countrywide mortgage fiasco having to do with his personal finances and now for this. hes going to have to do some serious rethinking if he hopes to keep his seat. leiberman too. hes on the short list for removal. the problem with this is that often the gold coast of ct lends a bit too much influence over the rest of the state in terms of the selection of candidates because thats where the majority of money is and for the most part those folks are republicans. ct is one of the least liberal new england states especially when it comes to money issues.

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Psych Lit wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Firstly, she's defiantly "illegal", there's not an ounce of nonchalance or humility about it.  Too, she ignored the deportation order issued over four years ago.

hmm not sure that shes defied more like appealed and appealed and used all avenues available to do so.  it does remind me tho that, as tough as life here is and life in boston public housing is surely that, there are people who will do anything to be here.


Thirdly (to put a roof over her head) she lied on her welfare apps stating her "employer" was the Boston Housing Authority. Lastly she happens to be BO's auntie.

id question that welfare thing. there is no welfare anymore, there is no safety net for anyone beyond unemployment ins and ss disability which she prolly cant get without an ss card. i spend a lot of my time working the phone on behalf of desparately poor women who have disabilities, trying to hook them up with housing or any kind of shelter, medical or psychiatric care, proper nutrition, and trying to get any services for them is nearly impossible these days. housing vouchers will getcha one month of security deposit tho most require two months, and thats IF you can find a landlord who will take them, the waiting lists for public housing are long and the housing is often unsafe,  especially for people who have some sort of mental fragility and some kind of income is required.  rents in boston are close to 1.5- 2k a month. the question for me then is how does she support herself? if shes in danger back in kenya then id hope she would apply for a permanent visa.  and if she is supported by friends or relatives why dont they sponsor her for citizenship?

im of mixed mind about immigration. if the employers who hire them paid wages that support employment by us citizens this wouldnt be an issue. my big concern with this is the security risk for all, be it kidnappings or terrorism or moving the drug wars northward.  if we went after those who have the drug factories and the gang bangers and the employers who hire non citizens rather than the exploited workers people wouldnt want to come here.  there would be little incentive to do so.  tho those who do work long hours in often horrendous conditions that most of the rest of us wouldnt.

Early last fall GWB drafted an immediate measure to block controversial deportations specifically to prevent this matter from being an issue during the election. This isn't preferential treatment?

who knows tho really. if he had played that card upfront then public opinion may have not been in the repubs favor. someone leaked the info tho which is another way of dealing with it.

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 She was ordered out of the country and appeal was denied. Packing her bags for four additional years is, in fact, defiantly rejecting immigration law.

Also, all that hard work you put into phone banking for fair housing and other basic needs? Should they or not be fought for the legal American citizens or those with legal papers, cards, visas etc. And welfare is a commonly used phrase for anything that is a freebie, WIC, food banks, power bills being paid, free diapers, formula, etc. It's my understanding that she lived in the Boston Housing Authority system for years. So, that is welfare. I hear she's in Cleveland now. She may swim back to Kenya after a few months in Cleveland.

Anonymous wrote:

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Firstly, she's defiantly "illegal", there's not an ounce of nonchalance or humility about it.  Too, she ignored the deportation order issued over four years ago.

hmm not sure that shes defied more like appealed and appealed and used all avenues available to do so.  it does remind me tho that, as tough as life here is and life in boston public housing is surely that, there are people who will do anything to be here.


Thirdly (to put a roof over her head) she lied on her welfare apps stating her "employer" was the Boston Housing Authority. Lastly she happens to be BO's auntie.

id question that welfare thing. there is no welfare anymore, there is no safety net for anyone beyond unemployment ins and ss disability which she prolly cant get without an ss card. i spend a lot of my time working the phone on behalf of desparately poor women who have disabilities, trying to hook them up with housing or any kind of shelter, medical or psychiatric care, proper nutrition, and trying to get any services for them is nearly impossible these days. housing vouchers will getcha one month of security deposit tho most require two months, and thats IF you can find a landlord who will take them, the waiting lists for public housing are long and the housing is often unsafe,  especially for people who have some sort of mental fragility and some kind of income is required.  rents in boston are close to 1.5- 2k a month. the question for me then is how does she support herself? if shes in danger back in kenya then id hope she would apply for a permanent visa.  and if she is supported by friends or relatives why dont they sponsor her for citizenship?

im of mixed mind about immigration. if the employers who hire them paid wages that support employment by us citizens this wouldnt be an issue. my big concern with this is the security risk for all, be it kidnappings or terrorism or moving the drug wars northward.  if we went after those who have the drug factories and the gang bangers and the employers who hire non citizens rather than the exploited workers people wouldnt want to come here.  there would be little incentive to do so.  tho those who do work long hours in often horrendous conditions that most of the rest of us wouldnt.

Early last fall GWB drafted an immediate measure to block controversial deportations specifically to prevent this matter from being an issue during the election. This isn't preferential treatment?

who knows tho really. if he had played that card upfront then public opinion may have not been in the repubs favor. someone leaked the info tho which is another way of dealing with it.

Psych Lit wrote:

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BTW, when the hell is his illegal auntie getting out of the damned country? Anyone?<--bd

wow! funny you should mention her. she made my local news only moments ago.  its her bad luck to be auntie i guess. if she werent shed prolly still be living in boston under the noses of all and nobody would know or care.  did you know that bush knew she was here long before this came to light in the press? it must have come up in the rep vetting process. i thought that odd in a way. this is another damned if you do nd damned if you dont issue for him tho. if he lets auntie go back to kenya he'll be criticized and if he doesnt same result.

By Maria Sacchetti Globe Staff / March 24, 2009

President Barack Obama's aunt, a Kenyan immigrant who ignited controversy last year for living in the United States illegally, has returned to her quiet apartment in a Boston public housing project to prepare for an April 1 deportation hearing that will be closed to the public.

Zeituni Onyango, a tall, frail-looking woman in her late 50s who walks with a cane, had fled Boston to stay with relatives in Cleveland last fall after media attention erupted over her case. She was spotted at Obama's inaugural festivities in January and, according to neighbors, returned to Boston a few weeks ago for her third attempt to fight removal from the United States. She had been living in the country illegally since she was ordered deported in 2004.

Now the woman Obama called "Auntie Zeituni" and described as a kindly woman who kissed him on both cheeks and guided him during his trip to Kenya 20 years ago, is in a national spotlight, where her case is seen as a test of the Obama admin istration's commitment to enforcing immigration laws. Critics, outraged that she is living in taxpayer-funded public housing while thousands of citizens and legal immigrants are on waiting lists, are scrutinizing the case for political favoritism. Others caution that she may have legitimate grounds to stay in the United States.

"The case is unusual in American history because it's a relative of the president involved in immigration matters," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies. "It really does present the White House with an opportunity or a minefield. If they follow through on a decision that she should go home, that would actually raise the president's credibility enormously on immigration enforcement."

Obama has said that he has not had any involvement in the case and that it should run its ordinary course, White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said.

Onyango's fate will play out behind closed doors before Judge Leonard Shapiro in Boston. Onyango's lawyer, Margaret Wong of Ohio, successfully argued to reopen her case in December and have the proceedings closed to the public, according to the Executive Office for Immigration Review, which oversees immigration courts.

Onyango declined two requests for interviews in recent days, and told a reporter to stop wasting her time.

"I'm not happy," Onyango said, bundled up in a parka against the spring chill as she went to pick up her mail.

Wong has not responded to repeated requests for comment. But her spokesman told the Cleveland Plain Dealer in January that Onyango would present new evidence to back an asylum claim. Onyango has lost several attempts to fight deportation, said immigration court spokeswoman Elaine Komis. In 2003, a judge ordered her to leave the country, and she lost on appeal. She tried again, but an immigration judge ordered her deported in October 2004. Komis would not confirm whether Onyango had sought asylum before now because, she said, asylum cases are confidential.

Shapiro, an immigration judge since 1990, rejected 68 percent of asylum requests from 2002 to 2007, higher than the state and national averages, according to the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University. Asylum seekers must show that they fear persecution based on race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a social group.

Still, immigration lawyers said she has a chance because she managed to get a hearing.

Onyango is a half-sister of the president's late father, Barack Obama Sr., who was absent most of Obama's life and who died in a car accident in 1982. The president met his aunt during a trip to Kenya in 1988 and included her in his 1995 memoir, "Dreams from My Father," but has said he was unaware of her immigration issues.

Onyango, then a computer programmer, served as a translator, storyteller, and guide during his Kenya trip. She shared stories about his father's struggles and her own. She said Obama's father helped her get out of an abusive marriage when she was jobless and had no money.

She came to the United States in 2000 to find work and to seek a better life. Though she was ordered deported in 2004, she remained in the United States undetected until just before Election Day.

Aida Ramos, a neighbor, said Onyango is a humble, independent woman who suffers from back problems and is upset about the media attention over her case. She said Onyango quietly helps her neighbors, from counseling them on child-rearing to health issues.

"She's a very nice lady who wants to live her life," said Ramos. "Because she's Obama's aunt she's getting all this attention she didn't even want.

 

-- Edited by Psych Lit on Monday 23rd of March 2009 11:18:05 PM

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BTW, when the hell is his illegal auntie getting out of the damned country? Anyone?<--bd

wow! funny you should mention her. she made my local news only moments ago.  its her bad luck to be auntie i guess. if she werent shed prolly still be living in boston under the noses of all and nobody would know or care.  did you know that bush knew she was here long before this came to light in the press? it must have come up in the rep vetting process. i thought that odd in a way. this is another damned if you do nd damned if you dont issue for him tho. if he lets auntie go back to kenya he'll be criticized and if he doesnt same result.

By Maria Sacchetti Globe Staff / March 24, 2009

President Barack Obama's aunt, a Kenyan immigrant who ignited controversy last year for living in the United States illegally, has returned to her quiet apartment in a Boston public housing project to prepare for an April 1 deportation hearing that will be closed to the public.

Zeituni Onyango, a tall, frail-looking woman in her late 50s who walks with a cane, had fled Boston to stay with relatives in Cleveland last fall after media attention erupted over her case. She was spotted at Obama's inaugural festivities in January and, according to neighbors, returned to Boston a few weeks ago for her third attempt to fight removal from the United States. She had been living in the country illegally since she was ordered deported in 2004.

Now the woman Obama called "Auntie Zeituni" and described as a kindly woman who kissed him on both cheeks and guided him during his trip to Kenya 20 years ago, is in a national spotlight, where her case is seen as a test of the Obama admin istration's commitment to enforcing immigration laws. Critics, outraged that she is living in taxpayer-funded public housing while thousands of citizens and legal immigrants are on waiting lists, are scrutinizing the case for political favoritism. Others caution that she may have legitimate grounds to stay in the United States.

"The case is unusual in American history because it's a relative of the president involved in immigration matters," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies. "It really does present the White House with an opportunity or a minefield. If they follow through on a decision that she should go home, that would actually raise the president's credibility enormously on immigration enforcement."

Obama has said that he has not had any involvement in the case and that it should run its ordinary course, White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said.

Onyango's fate will play out behind closed doors before Judge Leonard Shapiro in Boston. Onyango's lawyer, Margaret Wong of Ohio, successfully argued to reopen her case in December and have the proceedings closed to the public, according to the Executive Office for Immigration Review, which oversees immigration courts.

Onyango declined two requests for interviews in recent days, and told a reporter to stop wasting her time.

"I'm not happy," Onyango said, bundled up in a parka against the spring chill as she went to pick up her mail.

Wong has not responded to repeated requests for comment. But her spokesman told the Cleveland Plain Dealer in January that Onyango would present new evidence to back an asylum claim. Onyango has lost several attempts to fight deportation, said immigration court spokeswoman Elaine Komis. In 2003, a judge ordered her to leave the country, and she lost on appeal. She tried again, but an immigration judge ordered her deported in October 2004. Komis would not confirm whether Onyango had sought asylum before now because, she said, asylum cases are confidential.

Shapiro, an immigration judge since 1990, rejected 68 percent of asylum requests from 2002 to 2007, higher than the state and national averages, according to the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University. Asylum seekers must show that they fear persecution based on race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a social group.

Still, immigration lawyers said she has a chance because she managed to get a hearing.

Onyango is a half-sister of the president's late father, Barack Obama Sr., who was absent most of Obama's life and who died in a car accident in 1982. The president met his aunt during a trip to Kenya in 1988 and included her in his 1995 memoir, "Dreams from My Father," but has said he was unaware of her immigration issues.

Onyango, then a computer programmer, served as a translator, storyteller, and guide during his Kenya trip. She shared stories about his father's struggles and her own. She said Obama's father helped her get out of an abusive marriage when she was jobless and had no money.

She came to the United States in 2000 to find work and to seek a better life. Though she was ordered deported in 2004, she remained in the United States undetected until just before Election Day.

Aida Ramos, a neighbor, said Onyango is a humble, independent woman who suffers from back problems and is upset about the media attention over her case. She said Onyango quietly helps her neighbors, from counseling them on child-rearing to health issues.

"She's a very nice lady who wants to live her life," said Ramos. "Because she's Obama's aunt she's getting all this attention she didn't even want.

BoxDog wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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I think one big shift has been the role that the v.p. has played. While traditionally the "first LADY " did take on causes such as a Miss America or Mrs. Universe would those roles were such that the veep should be quite contented and capable of initiating and overseeing. Goodwill appearances and causes, pet projects and such. Efforts at grassroots real change, community outreach and things outside of policy and procedure. Especially considering neither the job of veep or the sometimes unfortunate fate of being the first spouse is one of a legislative, judicial or even executive role with the exception of being a readied pinch hitter (veep, not spouse). I still wanna suggest paying the 20k to shut MO up. I didn't find it particularly charming her telling a school full of children that she was picked on for sounding funny, you know, like a white kid...on the heels of the BO taking a juvenile stab at the developmentally disabled. OFALLTHINGS! A Kennedy family project from day one first borne on one of their lawns with five or six kids. <EYEROLL>.

Now's the part where someone says.....I'm pretty sure you'll never change your mind about him...

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Naw. Maybe just "what took you so long? I was expecting it days ago!"

I really was, btw. You were the FIRST I thought of, when I read about Obama's gaffe.

I've read some blogger-types rants about using THEIR tax dollars on that $200 White House kitchen garden, too.  That it will yield $600 worth of produce in a few months, is of no consequence.  Then there was a lot of discussion too, about the clothes Michelle Obama was wearing in the garden, and how "stoopit" they were. Oh, and let's not forget about the TAX DOLLARS all their SERVANTS are going to be using up in taking time to WATER that garden... there's at least five minutes of material there. Oh, and the wild parties at the White House, with the likes of Stevie Wonder, just blatantly BLOWING even MORE of our tax money (even though the "wild" party was actually an honorary award event, with SW performing a couple of tunes ... PBS aired it -- perhaps they will again.

And I ask myself about that bizarro world where Cindy McCain was putting in a garden as her "first lady" addition to the White House, and wondering what kind of press SHE would get for doing the same thing. 

She took some school kids and hung out with them and got some ground ready for a garden. That was it. Not exactly dropping bombs on civilians in the busiest city in Iraq, and oohing and ahing at the pretty lights. God forbid either of these two people should ever say or do anything. Others seem to have a much broader latitude, and sometimes it DOES seem pretty much about the person rather than the act. You'd be livid, if Obama had told a joke about "Seizure World," hunh. Or suggested we import cigarettes to Iraq to give them all lung cancer. Did you hear the one about the ape that brutally beat and raped a woman? Now, THAT'S FUNNY MATERIAL!


"... because Janet Reno is her father." buh dump ump tcheeeeee. 

-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 on Monday 23rd of March 2009 02:56:18 PM

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''It was stupid and cruel and insensitive. I've apologized. I can't take it back. I could give you a whole bunch of excuses, but there are no excuses. I was wrong, but do you want me crucified? How many days does it need to be a story?''

 

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Really, the "gaffe" would never had happened if it weren't for his insane obsession with self promotion and media attention. As I watched it I could see him getting excited with each giggle or laugh. He was bound and determined to open and insert. As for how long it will be a story? Well we're just about two months into this schtick, he hasn't got a health care plan, his carefree spending is astronomical, the "no earmarks" line is long forgotten and the 9000 earmarks are "in" the 40 thousand soldiers scheduled to pull out of Iraq can't wait to move to Afghanistan. So, I guess we'll just leave it at it'll be a story until my last breath. There are instructions to let the internet, friends and foes alike, aware of this day. That day.  As for MO, I think the garden is a swell idea. There's absolutely no harm in something like that. The taxpayers money? Isn't everything they earn, presumably, a taxpayer based salary? Why would they be expected to enhance the grounds of the WH with personal cash? I don't think that. What I do take issue with was her comments to the schoolchildren that clearly reiterated the racial, class, color lines and made such a point to teach a new generation that white folks speak differently.

He has time for Leno, time to play the brackets of the Final Four, he has alot of time to do alot of things that really don't matter. I'm not slow in responding. Maybe I'm in the messageboard "Special Olympics". That's how long it'll be a story.

BTW, when the hell is his illegal auntie getting out of the damned country? Anyone?

-- Edited by BoxDog on Monday 23rd of March 2009 05:49:56 PM

-- Edited by BoxDog on Monday 23rd of March 2009 05:51:26 PM

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Anonymous wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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I think one big shift has been the role that the v.p. has played. While traditionally the "first LADY " did take on causes such as a Miss America or Mrs. Universe would those roles were such that the veep should be quite contented and capable of initiating and overseeing. Goodwill appearances and causes, pet projects and such. Efforts at grassroots real change, community outreach and things outside of policy and procedure. Especially considering neither the job of veep or the sometimes unfortunate fate of being the first spouse is one of a legislative, judicial or even executive role with the exception of being a readied pinch hitter (veep, not spouse). I still wanna suggest paying the 20k to shut MO up. I didn't find it particularly charming her telling a school full of children that she was picked on for sounding funny, you know, like a white kid...on the heels of the BO taking a juvenile stab at the developmentally disabled. OFALLTHINGS! A Kennedy family project from day one first borne on one of their lawns with five or six kids. <EYEROLL>.

Now's the part where someone says.....I'm pretty sure you'll never change your mind about him...

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Naw. Maybe just "what took you so long? I was expecting it days ago!"

I really was, btw. You were the FIRST I thought of, when I read about Obama's gaffe.

I've read some blogger-types rants about using THEIR tax dollars on that $200 White House kitchen garden, too.  That it will yield $600 worth of produce in a few months, is of no consequence.  Then there was a lot of discussion too, about the clothes Michelle Obama was wearing in the garden, and how "stoopit" they were. Oh, and let's not forget about the TAX DOLLARS all their SERVANTS are going to be using up in taking time to WATER that garden... there's at least five minutes of material there. Oh, and the wild parties at the White House, with the likes of Stevie Wonder, just blatantly BLOWING even MORE of our tax money (even though the "wild" party was actually an honorary award event, with SW performing a couple of tunes ... PBS aired it -- perhaps they will again.

And I ask myself about that bizarro world where Cindy McCain was putting in a garden as her "first lady" addition to the White House, and wondering what kind of press SHE would get for doing the same thing. 

She took some school kids and hung out with them and got some ground ready for a garden. That was it. Not exactly dropping bombs on civilians in the busiest city in Iraq, and oohing and ahing at the pretty lights. God forbid either of these two people should ever say or do anything. Others seem to have a much broader latitude, and sometimes it DOES seem pretty much about the person rather than the act. You'd be livid, if Obama had told a joke about "Seizure World," hunh. Or suggested we import cigarettes to Iraq to give them all lung cancer. Did you hear the one about the ape that brutally beat and raped a woman? Now, THAT'S FUNNY MATERIAL!


"... because Janet Reno is her father." buh dump ump tcheeeeee. 

-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 on Monday 23rd of March 2009 02:56:18 PM

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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My Turn wrote:

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i do not think that any first spouse should receive a salary, nor a pension.  s/he is not the elected official nor an employee.  there are no "required" duites of the first spouse, only "expected" duties.  imo, most if not all, presidents are very well off financially to begin with, receive free housing, the best food, an enormous staff, free travel, medical care, no utility bills, and on and on and on...pretty much free everything.  the "job" of president and first family is the most benefit laden position one will find anywhere and the benefits and perks already far exceed the "mere" $400K currently paid to the president. 

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I agree. While there have been more than a few that have had huge social and global impacts (positive ones) over the years, for the most I would be more in favor of paying them 20 grand to shut up.

 bd

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:) But they can't, even if they'd like to (and I think most would have liked that very much.) They're all pretty much "obliged" to pick a cause to promote, and too, there are tons of unofficial official duties they have to perform. We've had a couple of presidents who've been widowed, and married while in office, but only one bachelor, and that was over 150 years ago. Those who had lost their wives had to call their daughters or other female relatives in to function as "first lady." It's really a full time gig, and has been for a long time. I've often thought how fortunate we were that they DID speak out, and that often they've been more pro-women, and vocally so, than their husbands, starting way back with Abagail Adams, who was really astoundingly pro-women. And it's not been a partisan thing, either -- Pat Nixon and Betty Ford were both outspokenly pro-choice, and, if memory serves, pro-ERA. I'd need to double check that, but I'm almost positive that's the case. And how many of us said a few years ago that we wished Barbara Bush was president instead of her husband? Her attempt to throw a positive light on the Katrina disaster will, I suspect, cast an unfortunate light on her legacy, but she said things I think a lot of us were thinking ourselves, but a president never really could say.

I think I'm almost as interested in seeing a first gentleman as I am a woman president, in a way -- interested to see if he will assume the "traditional" first wife role as host for dinner parties for dignitaries, etc. It really will be a coup for the women's movement in THAT way, as well as the obvious -- to see a man assume what's traditionally been assumed a woman's role. I don't know that that will happen in my lifetime, though.

-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 on Monday 23rd of March 2009 09:15:36 AM

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I think one big shift has been the role that the v.p. has played. While traditionally the "first LADY " did take on causes such as a Miss America or Mrs. Universe would those roles were such that the veep should be quite contented and capable of initiating and overseeing. Goodwill appearances and causes, pet projects and such. Efforts at grassroots real change, community outreach and things outside of policy and procedure. Especially considering neither the job of veep or the sometimes unfortunate fate of being the first spouse is one of a legislative, judicial or even executive role with the exception of being a readied pinch hitter (veep, not spouse). I still wanna suggest paying the 20k to shut MO up. I didn't find it particularly charming her telling a school full of children that she was picked on for sounding funny, you know, like a white kid...on the heels of the BO taking a juvenile stab at the developmentally disabled. OFALLTHINGS! A Kennedy family project from day one first borne on one of their lawns with five or six kids. <EYEROLL>.

Now's the part where someone says.....I'm pretty sure you'll never change your mind about him...

I really don't know if I drifted or not, the title and all, "why is it", so nice and subjective.

My Turn wrote:

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i do not think that any first spouse should receive a salary, nor a pension.  s/he is not the elected official nor an employee.  there are no "required" duites of the first spouse, only "expected" duties.  imo, most if not all, presidents are very well off financially to begin with, receive free housing, the best food, an enormous staff, free travel, medical care, no utility bills, and on and on and on...pretty much free everything.  the "job" of president and first family is the most benefit laden position one will find anywhere and the benefits and perks already far exceed the "mere" $400K currently paid to the president. 

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 bd

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Psych Lit wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Psych Lit wrote:

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that first ladies dont get a salary?

and even more curious

why do they get a pension if they arent paid workers?

and why is it only 20K? the pres gets 150K on a 400K salary. whats the 20K based on?

thats a rather sexist system we have going.

michele obamas been out there working it everyday like hillary clinton before her. heck today she was digging a victory garden in the back lawn. i think we should be paying her. arent we beyond this little woman in the kitchen kind of thinking?

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Where did you hear about this, Psych?

 

i was curious about it so i googled it and found an answer on a website called how stuff works. heres the exact wording which is sort of nebulous. its listed under the pension of the former pres and yet is the only entry that doesnt specifically describe what its for.

 

Salaries of Federal Employees

Here's a list of some federal employees and their current salaries as reported in January 2005:

Executive Branch

• President: $400,000; $50,000 expense account; $100,000 nontaxable for travel; $19,000 official entertainment account; free housing
• Retired president: $150,000 pension; plus $150,000 to maintain staff
• Former first lady: $20,000
• Vice president: $208,100; $10,000 expense account; free housing
• Presidential Cabinet member (i.e. secretary of defense, attorney general, etc.): $157,000

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-- Edited by Psych Lit on Sunday 22nd of March 2009 10:09:15 PM

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I think what this is, is a widow(er)s pension, payable only to the deceased former president's spouse if they ask for it, and haven't remarried (before they've turned 60) or gotten a job in the goverment, but they get it this pension only when the former president has died, to help them get by. I don't think we're paying the $20K annual to anyone right now, even though I suppose Betty Ford and Nancy Regan could get it if they wanted, although they'd have to give up other pensions due them from their deceased spouses, and Gerry Ford's congressional pension would be significantly more than that. I think Ladybird was the last person to receive this pension, and LBJ died in '73 -- $20K a year wasn't terrible back then, really, was it? I can't remember. :)

I suspect the $20K is just an arbitrary figure congress pulled out of a hat, which may have just been the "fair" amount the last time the law was written. It IS written as for the WIDOW, so is probably in need of a non-gender specfic rewrite soon.

Bummer for the VP's widow, though, who gets squat.

 

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This (First spouse, lady)  is considered a "federal employee"? Really, I think this is outrageous. Of all, and many, many are underqualified, this is the ONLY position that requires absolutely no experience, knowledge, campaigning, education, nothing but a marriage license? It doesn't even have fair market competition for the job. It's an entitlement? I don't think the "first anything" should "get anything", from us. Least of all this one. She is still on leave of absence from her q million dollar year job, right? She was the entire campaign, after all, on a paid leave from U Chicago Medical Center in the created position she held there after BO garnered a million bucks in government money to send the hospitals way. While he "served" Illinois, he would NEVER do that now, right? Aside from the fact that she always earned more cash and actually showed up for work at hands on jobs, be they designed specifically for her, or actually working at a private law firm or the Mayors office, than he did. Except for all that self promoting book writing, the autobiographies of a 30 something.I think it came out again...;)

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"Hillary: The President", that would have sounded interesting, to me. ;)

 

oh yeah!

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Psych Lit wrote:

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that first ladies dont get a salary?

and even more curious

why do they get a pension if they arent paid workers?

and why is it only 20K? the pres gets 150K on a 400K salary. whats the 20K based on?

thats a rather sexist system we have going.

michele obamas been out there working it everyday like hillary clinton before her. heck today she was digging a victory garden in the back lawn. i think we should be paying her. arent we beyond this little woman in the kitchen kind of thinking?

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Where did you hear about this, Psych?

 

i was curious about it so i googled it and found an answer on a website called how stuff works. heres the exact wording which is sort of nebulous. its listed under the pension of the former pres and yet is the only entry that doesnt specifically describe what its for.

 

Salaries of Federal Employees

Here's a list of some federal employees and their current salaries as reported in January 2005:

Executive Branch

• President: $400,000; $50,000 expense account; $100,000 nontaxable for travel; $19,000 official entertainment account; free housing
• Retired president: $150,000 pension; plus $150,000 to maintain staff
• Former first lady: $20,000
• Vice president: $208,100; $10,000 expense account; free housing
• Presidential Cabinet member (i.e. secretary of defense, attorney general, etc.): $157,000

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Psych Lit wrote:

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that first ladies dont get a salary?

and even more curious

why do they get a pension if they arent paid workers?

and why is it only 20K? the pres gets 150K on a 400K salary. whats the 20K based on?

thats a rather sexist system we have going.

michele obamas been out there working it everyday like hillary clinton before her. heck today she was digging a victory garden in the back lawn. i think we should be paying her. arent we beyond this little woman in the kitchen kind of thinking?

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 `Hillary: The Movie,' now showing at Supreme Court

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Yeah, it's always seemed odd to me that the first spouse doesn't get a salary, considering all they have to do in that unofficial official position. I guess it's just chalked up to civic duty. I didn't know they got a pension, though. Hunh.

yeah thats the odd part. i suppose they dont want the former first lady living in squalor if the spouse dies first but im thinking 20k isnt living large. or maybe the spouses pension lives on with them? i wonder. 150k a year for life is a lot of dough for 4 or 8 years of work. same deal too. its a wonder people try for a second term.

I don't know that it's sexist really -- the problem, and where the sexism lies, is in our electoral process. I look forward to the day people like Bill Clinton are the ones not gathering a salary.

well, sexist in the underlying assumptions. is this based on the idea that the man goes to work and the little woman stays home and supports that work with unpaid hostess duties? shades of june cleaver and mopping in string pearls.  btw, as im thinking of this, i can remember that mr cleavers name was ward and that wally and the beav whose real name was theodore lived in the cleaver home but i cannot ever recall anyone ever calling her june. not the mr, not the neighbors, still i know that was the characters name. can anyone ever remember ward calling her by name?

Who, among us, could afford, right now, to quit their jobs, and dedicate that kind of time to running for office, with no income, and not even a promise of FUTURE income? Seriously. Think about it.

yep and one of the problems with this is that if someone who isnt wealthy gets the job there is an incentive to keep the job by putting finger to the wind to make decisions rather than doing what is perhaps right but not popular

As it turned out, the candidate was married to a university professor, and at the time, didn't NEED any income from the job, really, but how many people are in that position? She wasn't just the first woman to be on that board in 51 years, she was also one of the first who wasn't in the medical profession. Even so, medicine pays a lot more than politics. We just recently had someone turn down the position of Surgeon General, probably because it would mean such a drastic reduction in income to him.

dr gupta? that was an odd situation. id have thought that would be a great pick. hes media savvy, has great connections with the press etc. the whys of his turning that down werent really publicized.

I think the reason we have so many lawyers in Congress is less about their familiarity with law, and more about their ability to pay for a campaign, and sustain their life style while in office.

and yet once they are in office they seem to prosper afterward. the clintons have become wealthy in the aftermath of bills presidency. and many of the senators seem to have very healthy incomes... cant explain biden tho.

 

- people who understand what it's like to try to raise a family on less than $250K a year. I don't know about your state, but in mine, lots of legislators also hold part time jobs -- even the more wealthy ones. For me? I'd rather pay them a livable salary, and have them concentrate all their time on making well measured and prudent decisions on my behalf. Ya get what ya pay for, ya know?

and wasnt there a law signed after clintons term having to do with raising salaries for people currently serving? id like to see them earn a decent wage to be sure but id also like them to remember those in their constituency that arent and be in touch with that sort of stress. mixed bag yanno?

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