nesea wrote:

---

425 dollars huh ... well now .. that'll teach me to blatantly steal, cut and paste an email without performing my due diligence .. lol

Thank god for the math majors;)

.
My guess would be that people would put some in the bank. Otherwise no home would be safe .. no better thief lure than knowing lots of cash is in the house somewhere

unless we know chuck of mike or glen or igor! theyve got guns! wheee! yanno? i can see their lil protected by smith and wesson signs now!

not sure how you got here ... but my guess would be there would be a dramatic increase in elective cosmetic surgery for the botox and metrosexual generation. In other words ..  more of a boom than a bust.

no jobs the rest of the pop goes into the category uninsured. system crashes. bff had botox and restylane done a week ago. i didnt notice. not money well spent. had she not said anything honestly... not even well rested.

what appealed to me is the trickle up instead of the trickle down economics ... ok, so more of a flood than a trickle

my dad used to have a similar formula for the income tax. i used to call it his robin hood scheme. flat tax for all and then spread the wealth individually and evenly among all. i need to feel the pressure of needing to work or honestly i wouldnt. there are way too many other fun things to do and when i leave for work each day i feel a bit disappointed that i have to stop the fun things that i am doing to go and do these moolah tasks. bah. ill take my 425k tho the 425 dollars wouldnt last me till saturday. lol

---

 

 

 

 

 

---

Psych Lit wrote:

---

 

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

 

"She's a witch! Burn her! Burn her!!!!!"

 

hmmpf. flouncing off to salem with singed wigits!

---

"She turned me into a ...a ....... REPUBLICAN!"

 

---

gasp! never! well i have owned being fiscally conservative and more to the center when it comes to taxation and gov meddling in my life. but  socially farther to the left than dennis and ted. ive never been a fan of throwing money at problems as a first course of action. thats the easy thing to do. the hard thing is to uncover what the causes of the problem are and try and untangle them in socially responsible ways. sometimes i think that we could save a lot of money if we didnt allow some humans to suffer in ways that were not ok for the rest of us. imo were we to take more personal responsibility for humanity wed need far fewer after the fact solutions.

 

---

 

---

 And in case you doubt how "cool" a teacher I was, I spent one whole class period (young adults in an acting academy) having the students in my "Comedy" class to watch this film, which, incidentally, I consider the most complete comedic film ever made. It has ALL the elements of comedy -- from beginning to end.) There was a quiz afterwards, and my students had to identify each of those elements as illustrated in the film ... I was cool, but always with the intent of teaching something, 'cause ... I firmly believe we best and most easily learn when we're having a good time. )

Anonymous wrote:

---

Actually I think it was more a periwinkle. And it was tucked away on this little backstreet that looked like Old St. Aug. The temp? like 2*, I think it was the coldest winter in 20 years, back then. Cold as a witches, you know.

BD

i had a feisty old aunt who used to use this expression. i loved her. she was a tough ole cookie and i cant recall one time in her presence where she wasnt laughing uproariously and getting all to join in.

---

Laurie Cabots little purple witch shack? I haven't been there since 85. I Salem.

Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.:) i love it too. its one of those places that breathes heavy with history.

from the witches memorial.

"In 1692, 14 women and 6 men were accused of being witches, were tried, convicted, and executed. Executions took place on June 10, July 19, August 19, September 19 and September 22, 1692. To this day, the events of 1692 are used as a yardstick to measure the depth of civility and due process in our society."

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

BoxDog wrote:

---

 

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

 

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

 

Anonymous wrote:

---

Actually I think it was more a periwinkle. And it was tucked away on this little backstreet that looked like Old St. Aug. The temp? like 2*, I think it was the coldest winter in 20 years, back then. Cold as a witches, you know.

BD

---

Love Potion Number Nine?

 

---

 You may not think so now, but in five months, you'll really miss this side of me.

---

What's happening in five months?

 

---

August ... in Phoenix.



"But it's a DRY Hell..."

 

---

Well section 14, this is going to really suck if you're not one for surprises.

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

 

Anonymous wrote:

---

Actually I think it was more a periwinkle. And it was tucked away on this little backstreet that looked like Old St. Aug. The temp? like 2*, I think it was the coldest winter in 20 years, back then. Cold as a witches, you know.

BD

---

Love Potion Number Nine?

 

---

 You may not think so now, but in five months, you'll really miss this side of me.

---

What's happening in five months?

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

Anonymous wrote:

---

Actually I think it was more a periwinkle. And it was tucked away on this little backstreet that looked like Old St. Aug. The temp? like 2*, I think it was the coldest winter in 20 years, back then. Cold as a witches, you know.

BD

---

Love Potion Number Nine?

 

---

 You may not think so now, but in five months, you'll really miss this side of me.

Anonymous wrote:

---

Actually I think it was more a periwinkle. And it was tucked away on this little backstreet that looked like Old St. Aug. The temp? like 2*, I think it was the coldest winter in 20 years, back then. Cold as a witches, you know.

BD

---

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

Psych Lit wrote:

---

 

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

"She's a witch! Burn her! Burn her!!!!!"

 

hmmpf. flouncing off to salem with singed wigits!

---

---

MyCat8it wrote:

---

 

nesea wrote:

---

If the math were simple, the author would have actually performed it, and realized that 85B divided by 200M is only $425, not $425,000.  In order for this plan to work, the government would have to devote $85 Trillion to the plan, and they simply don't have that kind of money.

wow. im glad somebody did do the math!

Now, if you took the entire bailout plan of $850B (I think that's around where it started, but ended up at like $700B or something), that adds one zero on the individual share, and we should each receive a check of $4,250.  That's at least a damn sight better than the $400 making work pay credit.  Most people won't even notice that they got the credit.  Many others, like myself, won't even get it.

 

uh huh. i hate that when it happens.

 

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nesea wrote:

---

Yeah .. let's bail out this guy. Ok, so I'm digging up that email that went around at the time of AIG's first 85 billion dollar bailout.

Here's the plan I'd like to see.

This is a plan, but it makes far too much sense, our politicians would
not be able to take credit for it nor would they benefit.

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

---

 If the math were simple, the author would have actually performed it, and realized that 85B divided by 200M is only $425, not $425,000.  In order for this plan to work, the government would have to devote $85 Trillion to the plan, and they simply don't have that kind of money.

Now, if you took the entire bailout plan of $850B (I think that's around where it started, but ended up at like $700B or something), that adds one zero on the individual share, and we should each receive a check of $4,250.  That's at least a damn sight better than the $400 making work pay credit.  Most people won't even notice that they got the credit.  Many others, like myself, won't even get it.

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

---

I just saw a headline on AOL which read: "700 people stand in line for janitor job." It's a pretty safe bet 699 of those people are going to walk home disappointed.

i saw this too and wasnt surprised by it given what ive seen locally.

One of the first things I learned when I was trying to put my life back together was that those "NOW HIRING!" signs you see in store windows are lies. What they really mean is "Now collecting applications, just like we do every six months, even though there aren't any jobs available in our store."

ive noticed that too. i wonder why they do this? most of the retail outlets didnt even do the seasonal workers this year

and which I MUST supply in order to not be fraudulent. The other thing I've learned is that if you look closely at the "entry level" jobs, you'll find a TON of "requirements" (like a MASTER'S DEGREE specific to that job) which are difficult for the applicant to fulfill. The health industry seems to be the biggest hire-er these days, but in this economy, hospitals are instituting all kinds of massive lay offs. It ain't good out there for anyone these days.  

theres been a lot of consolidation of health care services around here and lots of layoffs in the last month or so. pretty scary stuff.the largest employers in this area are the insurance co's the hospitals and the colleges and universities.  the one thing that seems different about this recession here is that its really hit some of the most educated folks hardest. there are fewer people who can afford or need the services provided and so a real glut of people. saw something the other day about people completing their phds this year and 300 people applying for one tenure track job. i dont think mickyds is going to hire them either. tough spot to be in when they start calling in the student loans in 6months. in the past when there was more of a manufacturing base that seems to be what took the hit. not so anymore.

 

---

MyCat8it wrote:

---

Nesea wrote:

---

 

Basically what I'm shooting for is .. there are as many stories out there as there are people needing help. I wish we could help them all .. but we can't. Anc b/c we can't I think should aim to help those who were "trying" to live within their means and be responsible as opposed to helping those that were where they had no business being.

---

He won't get any special credit for starting his own business.  He won't get a break on that 10% penalty for the 401(k), which btw, I've seen widespread this year.  He certainly won't get a break on that self-employment tax (15.3%).  He makes too much to qualify for the Earned Income Credit (with 3 kids, he needs to), and that "making work pay" credit is turning into the joke of the year.  I saw another return yesterday, where the credit was projected to be $46.

So, while we are bailing out Citibank and the world's financial institutions, the little guy who is just struggling to pay his mortgage and feed his kids without landing on the unemployment train is really the guy who is SOL.

---

MyCat8it wrote:

---

 

Nesea wrote:

---

 

Basically what I'm shooting for is .. there are as many stories out there as there are people needing help. I wish we could help them all .. but we can't. Anc b/c we can't I think should aim to help those who were "trying" to live within their means and be responsible as opposed to helping those that were where they had no business being.

---

 I was on the phone with a client yesterday.  Hardly one of my larger clients, I only hear from him once a year at tax time, and haven't seen him in person in probably 4 years, he mails his stuff, usually.

This gentleman is a distributor for some orthopedic supplies and was employed until about May of last year.  He was laid off.  Instead of going on unemployment, he decided to take what he knows and start his own distribution company.  He is barely scraping by.  Got sick in the fall, emptied what little 401(k) he had (to which he will pay the 10% early withdrawal penalty), and now he's staring down the barrel of about $20k in self-employment income.

To his credit, he did actually contact me in the fall about setting up a legitimate business, but he never followed through.

He voluntarily gave his truck back to the bank.  He and his wife have 3 kids, and their 4th is being delivered tomorrow via scheduled cesarian (sp??).  He is making some money, but there are absolutely no breaks in store for this guy. 

He won't get any special credit for starting his own business.  He won't get a break on that 10% penalty for the 401(k), which btw, I've seen widespread this year.  He certainly won't get a break on that self-employment tax (15.3%).  He makes too much to qualify for the Earned Income Credit (with 3 kids, he needs to), and that "making work pay" credit is turning into the joke of the year.  I saw another return yesterday, where the credit was projected to be $46.

So, while we are bailing out Citibank and the world's financial institutions, the little guy who is just struggling to pay his mortgage and feed his kids without landing on the unemployment train is really the guy who is SOL.

 

---

now see...this is the part that bites the big one.....this dude is trying to do the right thing...take care of his family and not stand around looking for hand outs....used, what i am sure he considered, his "savings"...and only got himself into a bigger mess....that just sucks for him and his family...and i am sure it sucks for you that you cant help him because he came to you too late.  those kinds of things...knowing you could have given him advice and helped him develop a plan to prevent getting into this mess, must make it hard for you some days. 

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

---

I don't think bailing out bad decisions is the answer. I'm one of those - school of hard knock types. I think we know what being financially responsible entails ... we, as a society, just don't like living that way. Heck, look at the joneses ...

and id agree with that to a great extent. where i part the water tho is when it comes to the exploitation of consumers and when not acting to bail out those who erred comes back to bite the rest of us. what do people who have paid as agreed do when the corp who now owns their mortgage fails and puts them at risk thru no fault of their own? or those banks who purposefully set out to gain a greater market share of those sub primes because they could gouge those consumers an extra 4 or 5 percent on the dollar or the greedy investors who snapped up those bundled mortgages because of those higher rates of return. they are imo equally at fault and yet if you unmask who those investors are you find that they are the pension funds and the money market accounts as well as the people who sought out those high risk investments as a part of their individual portfolios. for the latter its a matter of individual choice, you pays yer dime you takes yer chances but the pension funds? companies hire the experts to invest those monies for people and who among them might think citi or jp morgan or ge would be a high risk investment? heck, id wonder if there is any person with a 401k who wasnt invested in those companies? and for the last 6 years or so it was bonanza time, and now of course its bust.  if there was a way to fix this without bailing out those who acted irresponsibly and by this i mean those who acted in corrupt ways id be all for it. in fact id love to see the assets of some of those worst offending ceos of corporations and banks have their assets used to fund these tarp measures

I understand about the 401k ... mine is taking a huge hit too .. but I'm still putting in, a little more than I was even .. buy cheap right .. that's fiscally sound. Some day it will come back, and when I does ... I'll own more shares than I would have otherwise.

i wish that were true. in ordinary times it would be but many of those institutional investments are loaded with the soon to no longer exist companies if these bail outs dont happen. if thats the case then that money will never be recovered. tho hopefully the plan managers have dumped most of the toxic stocks. i moved most of mine to a safer place after i lost a significant amount. i still contribute the max that i can and when the market begins to recover ill move it back into some moderate and lower risk accounts. i do kick myself for one decision. someone who is very good with these things advised me at the beginning of 08 to get out of the plans i was in and move to things like the credit union and i hesitated because they were still jumping up. of course once they really hit the skids theyve never come back. i waited a bit thinking that they would and in doing so lost about 25% of the worth. i could have been worse at one point it was down by 41% but there was a brief rally and i jumped at that point. 

---

So how much will this policy cost ? says I. Hmm... 3 times what I'm paying now. Wow, no kidding ... So what amount of insurance would I be getting for 3 times as much money? says I ... Oh, roughly half of what I have now ..  sez he.

scary isnt it? mine reset this year and is 3 times higher. at first i thought it was just me because i had a health issue last year and thought that somehow that ended up in the ins bank and they jumped rates on me but apparently they raised all the rates for everybody. i have no idea who i am insured by its a part of my employee compensation tho its a menu type thing where i get to select what i want and they allot me so many dollars to do it with and the rest comes out of my pocket. they didnt allot me any more so this raise in rates is on me. i looked into doing this privately but the rates were at least double what they are thru my employer.

Excuse me ?... and I need to do this why?? 

Well your premium will never go up again ... ever. But my premium won't be going up for another 9 years anyway ... (its a 20 yr policy) So ok, I understand there's arguments for both types of insurance but for me, at this time, my insurance expert doesn't feel so expert. Feels more like he's churning some accounts for commissions.

and to make more money for the ins companies who are in deep s*it right now.

So I tell my expert "no thank you".

sounds like a good decision

To simplify the difference .. let's help the bank that isn't flying around in their private jets, distributing bonuses to their underperformers ...

 

---

So, then, we completely discount the number of people they employ? Isn't there some way we can say: "Look, we'll save your bank, but YOU, bucko, are SOL, and we hope you have a ride home, 'cause that jet you came here on is listed on Ebay right now."

Can we really afford, from an employment angle, to let a Citi die, and put all those employees on the street? Not the CEOs, the people who actually do the work. 

and thats one of the difficulties here.  does the govt go in, dump the management, keep the employees and take over the bank?  then we get into that nationalization of banks thing which drops the market like a stone. then in a shrinking economy we have too many banks chasing too few dollars and under capitalistic principles the ranks need thinning, but that thinning involves the largest banks in america with thousands of employees, and millions of depositors who have insured deposits. if 100 banks fail what happens to the fdic?  this problem is so complicated.

the one thing i find to be the most disturbing here is the role of the press.  i think we saw during the presidential election how the press can actually shape outcome and what i am seeing here is a catastrophizing of the economy, blasted in the 24 hour news and info way that we do so well, which is contributing to the whole mess.

---

 

 

---

Psych Lit wrote:

---

 

nesea wrote:

---

 

And the above exactly describes those who should be helped by any foreclosure aide.

What really tweaks my butt (and not in a good way) is bailing out those with a modest income that bought 3 times the house they could afford, with a balloon mortgage that they knew would be greater than they could ever meet but thought themselves smarter than the rest of the world cause they had a plan. So they have this house ... and this car ... that they have no business having. AND THEY KNEW IT! But they did it anyway.

And shame on those that let them buy it, that took the fees and ran (the appraisers, the lenders and the rest)

and in so many ways i agree with what youre saying. really it sort of galls me to bail out the 5 suv family in the 700k home.  i grew up with the whole penny pinching yankee thing of paying off the mortgage as quickly as possible and that the mcmansions were for those new money people who had something to prove while the rest of us lived in our little 2k sq feet or less homes. however i cant tell you how many times in the last decade ive had people who were financial experts tell me that i was doing it all wrong, how i should be taking that equity and making it work for me etc. i didnt do it. i had to deal with college tuitions etc and that was more my priority than hitting it big in the investment world. i have the house and the retirement accts and the 6 month reserve and thats enough to handle.  i pay cash for my vehicles, drive them into the ground, use a credit card only to rent cars, shop at sales but this is what all of the experts have said over the last decade was the wrong thing to be doing. and people who werent out maxing the cards or refinancing were penalized on their fica scores. thats who this economy has been working for the last decade. if they raise your credit card rates and you flip them the bird and go elsewhere then you get a ding on your credit report. imo the banks and the reporting agencies were in bed with each other here to optimize the interest rates and make money. so thats prolly the sticking point for me. for those people who did listen to the experts, who thought they were doing everything right, and now find themselves upside down in the mcmansions? im feeling a) like not wanting to bail them out but also b) if we cant depend on the experts to guide us what do we do? and so im also finding it hard to blame them. then too there is the problem with this mess ending up costing me a job or costing me in the value of my investments. my 401k aint what it used to be yanno? helping them helps me in the long run but it still pisses me off.

 I don't think bailing out bad decisions is the answer. I'm one of those - school of hard knock types. I think we know what being financially responsible entails ... we, as a society, just don't like living that way. Heck, look at the joneses ...


I understand about the 401k ... mine is taking a huge hit too .. but I'm still putting in, a little more than I was even .. buy cheap right .. that's fiscally sound. Some day it will come back, and when I does ... I'll own more shares than I would have otherwise.

 

Another butt tweak, (yes, I'm sure I'll soon regret using this phrase but here it is again) bonuses to ceo's of failed companies. Wish someone would hand me a cool 10 million while telling me what an awful job I've done. Who do you have to know to get that job?

when you find out will you share with us?

Today I'm reading that the AIG bailout money is going to overseas banks. American taxpayers are now making sure banks overseas stay solvent. We are a wonderful people.

and see this is another one of those same things. we now have an economy that is no longer self supporting. we need the global markets. if they are not healthy we arent going to be healthy. it sucks to be sure and i still say i want to know where all of that money went and whether or not we can get it back. im thinking we should seriously go after those ceos and look for misconduct. if they did anything criminal then we should be looking for repayment.

what the heck ......

 

 

---

Here's a story .... my life insurance agent calls my house about a month ago for the first time in 11 years. I have a life ins policy that costs me about 45 dollars a month. Suddenly (sez he) I need to drop that policy and buy a new one that will NEVER increase for the rest of my life. I need to do this ... better do it today .. let's set up the physical ... k ....  sez he.

So how much will this policy cost ? says I. Hmm... 3 times what I'm paying now. Wow, no kidding ... So what amount of insurance would I be getting for 3 times as much money? says I ... Oh, roughly half of what I have now ..  sez he.

Excuse me ?... and I need to do this why?? 

Well your premium will never go up again ... ever. But my premium won't be going up for another 9 years anyway ... (its a 20 yr policy) So ok, I understand there's arguments for both types of insurance but for me, at this time, my insurance expert doesn't feel so expert. Feels more like he's churning some accounts for commissions.

So I tell my expert "no thank you".

This got way off track for me .. none of this is what I was aiming at .. but there was this blue whale special on nat-geo last night that I dvr'd (is that what its called?) and I'm trying to watch that and answer this and doing justice to neither .. and my laptop battery keeps wanting to die every time it senses the plug is out of the wall.

Basically what I'm shooting for is .. there are as many stories out there as there are people needing help. I wish we could help them all .. but we can't. Anc b/c we can't I think should aim to help those who were "trying" to live within their means and be responsible as opposed to helping those that were where they had no business being.

To simplify the difference .. let's help the bank that isn't flying around in their private jets, distributing bonuses to their underperformers ...

 

 

---

MyCat8it wrote:

---

 

My Turn wrote:

---

just the other day i saw one of the homeless guys holding a sign....but instead of the usual, will work for food...this one said:  "why lie. need beer. "

---

 i posted about the guy i saw before i saw this post.  LOL.  wonder if it was the same guy.  38th and Tyrone?

 

---

yup, yup...that be him!  lol....!

Psych Lit wrote:

---

ok, ill admit im struggling with this.  the creators of this site say that they chose that name to schock people into paying attention to the plight of the homeless. i get that. but there is a way in which the "this bum" sort of rankles me. This is a human being the diminishing to the "this bum" just seems beyond some sort of necessary something. i dont know. it bothers me any way.

i wonder tho. have we become so hardened as a society that we can, as the website states, blithely skip on by a site that says feed the homeless?

whats everyones attitude on giving money to a panhandler? i always give a buck or two not much i know and ill believe the food story and really?  there but for fortune...
i remember being in boulder a couple of years ago and they had these vouchers that one could buy and the vouchers could be used at certain stores and restaurants. the idea was if someone came and asked for money you could hand them one of these vouchers. seemed a bit patronizing to me but again i get the reasoning for it.

http://www.ascendgence.com/pimpthisbum/index.aspx

---

nesea wrote:

---

 

And the above exactly describes those who should be helped by any foreclosure aide.

What really tweaks my butt (and not in a good way) is bailing out those with a modest income that bought 3 times the house they could afford, with a balloon mortgage that they knew would be greater than they could ever meet but thought themselves smarter than the rest of the world cause they had a plan. So they have this house ... and this car ... that they have no business having. AND THEY KNEW IT! But they did it anyway.

And shame on those that let them buy it, that took the fees and ran (the appraisers, the lenders and the rest)

and in so many ways i agree with what youre saying. really it sort of galls me to bail out the 5 suv family in the 700k home.  i grew up with the whole penny pinching yankee thing of paying off the mortgage as quickly as possible and that the mcmansions were for those new money people who had something to prove while the rest of us lived in our little 2k sq feet or less homes. however i cant tell you how many times in the last decade ive had people who were financial experts tell me that i was doing it all wrong, how i should be taking that equity and making it work for me etc. i didnt do it. i had to deal with college tuitions etc and that was more my priority than hitting it big in the investment world. i have the house and the retirement accts and the 6 month reserve and thats enough to handle.  i pay cash for my vehicles, drive them into the ground, use a credit card only to rent cars, shop at sales but this is what all of the experts have said over the last decade was the wrong thing to be doing. and people who werent out maxing the cards or refinancing were penalized on their fica scores. thats who this economy has been working for the last decade. if they raise your credit card rates and you flip them the bird and go elsewhere then you get a ding on your credit report. imo the banks and the reporting agencies were in bed with each other here to optimize the interest rates and make money. so thats prolly the sticking point for me. for those people who did listen to the experts, who thought they were doing everything right, and now find themselves upside down in the mcmansions? im feeling a) like not wanting to bail them out but also b) if we cant depend on the experts to guide us what do we do? and so im also finding it hard to blame them. then too there is the problem with this mess ending up costing me a job or costing me in the value of my investments. my 401k aint what it used to be yanno? helping them helps me in the long run but it still pisses me off.

Another butt tweak, (yes, I'm sure I'll soon regret using this phrase but here it is again) bonuses to ceo's of failed companies. Wish someone would hand me a cool 10 million while telling me what an awful job I've done. Who do you have to know to get that job?

when you find out will you share with us?

Today I'm reading that the AIG bailout money is going to overseas banks. American taxpayers are now making sure banks overseas stay solvent. We are a wonderful people.

and see this is another one of those same things. we now have an economy that is no longer self supporting. we need the global markets. if they are not healthy we arent going to be healthy. it sucks to be sure and i still say i want to know where all of that money went and whether or not we can get it back. im thinking we should seriously go after those ceos and look for misconduct. if they did anything criminal then we should be looking for repayment.

what the heck ......

 

 

---

You know, I have a modest little home. Not very big, not very "updated" and not at all in a fancy neighborhood. Is just the right size for me, and a dog, and MAYBE a partner, and not much else. I got my property assessment notice in the mail the other day, and the value of my home has diminshed a third in the last year. I don't remember seeing it ever this low, actually. Of course I have to pay taxes right now on LAST years valuation, but next year it'll be a lot cheaper for me.

Now, not knowing a year or so ago, that this economic bomb was going to explode here, I might have quite easily taken out a mortgage on this place, or a home equity loan, for some repairs or whatnot. The ... whatever ... "new roof" or the "new plumbing" just couldn't wait until I'd "saved up for" it. At the time, the loan seemed a reasonable choice.

Had I done so, I'd still have to be making payments based not upon what my house is worth today, but rather what it was worth at the time.

Now let's presume a year ago I was working at a job where I felt I had great job stability, and could easily make any payments due, but was one of those unfortunate 25% at my job who got a not-performance-related pink slip a few months ago. All of a sudden, I'm scrambling to find a job in an economy where they are few and far between, but those "payment due" notices just keep coming in the mail ... along with the utility notices, and the insurance notices, and the credit card statements. All of a sudden, I can't sell my home for what it was worth a year ago, or for what I now owe the bank for it, even if I only took out a loan for a portion of the value of the house, so THAT option is gone. 

What do I do? 

I didn't go into the (hypothetical) situation with bad intent, or even particularly poor judgment. I tried to make a measured decision based upon my (however limited) knowledge based upon the twenty some years I've lived in this house, and my ability to meet my financial obligations.

I'm fast approaching an age where I do double takes on reverse mortgages when I run across them. I'm pretty sure that within the next 10-20 years, I'll absolutely do that if I have a house.  I have no kids, no "heirs" per se. I'm pretty much the end of the road for me, and I've been informed I can't take it with me, although that of course remains to be seen (do not underestimate my determination and tenacity).

I now have my elderly mother living with me, who DID take out a home equity line of credit, and who now suddenly owes way more money on her house than it's worth, but who has, for no fault of her own, suddenly been burdened with an unexpected and undesired state of unemployment. Oh, and all those "wise" investments she made for her retirement went abruptly and decidedly south, who can't afford, at this point, to invest MORE money into it to do the repairs necessary to make it suitably livable.

 just one scenario ... partly fiction, partly not

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What really tweaks my butt (and not in a good way) is bailing out those with a modest income that bought 3 times the house they could afford, with a balloon mortgage that they knew would be greater than they could ever meet but thought themselves smarter than the rest of the world cause they had a plan. So they have this house ... and this car ... that they have no business having. AND THEY KNEW IT! But they did it anyway.

And shame on those that let them buy it, that took the fees and ran (the appraisers, the lenders and the rest) 

Another butt tweak, (yes, I'm sure I'll soon regret using this phrase but here it is again) bonuses to ceo's of failed companies. Wish someone would hand me a cool 10 million while telling me what an awful job I've done. Who do you have to know to get that job?

Today I'm reading that the AIG bailout money is going to overseas banks. American taxpayers are now making sure banks overseas stay solvent. We are a wonderful people.

what the heck ...... 

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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BoxDog wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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I guess that makes me more selective in how I contribute to "the poor" and really sort of need to know they really are, before I make what is really going to be a financial sacrifice on my part, because really, with only so much money, you do want to see it get into the hands of those who really need it, rather than some shyster.

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Those last words are really the core of the problem with the current system. The majority of government funds are filtered through the paws of our elected officials, aka, the original shysters. So, yeah, left on our own, we do what we can, the best we're able to. I suspect in the end that will have a much broader impact on society, relations and immediate change anyway. It has to feel better to get that blanket, bologna sandwich or, in Bens case 12 pack from a neighbor, peer, regular ole jane.

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I don't know about that ...  Sounds "right" on the surface, really, but we're talking here about dignity, too, and "pride" and sometimes, it's easier to accept help from impersonal entities than "real" people in your life. Sort of the "behind closed doors" thing, you know? And too, sometimes a person you know will offer a helping hand, and then turn around and use that past help as a weapon against you.

I've been oddly blessed with seeing this issue from both sides. I say "blessed" because sympathy, while fine in its own right, cannot hold a candle to empathy, even if the source of that empathy is in the past. I got my financial "come uppins" a few years ago, when basically, my whole world disintegrated, and I had to do things I'd never before imagined myself doing, in order to survive. It was an astounding, jaw dropping learning experience to be sure, on more levels than I can adequately express. I moved into a wholly new and different level of society, of which I'd only casually been aware before, and finally "got it" about so many things ...

Now that I'm in a different (and more familiar) place <knock wood> I see, almost daily, how that time changed me, even though I was never before one to demean or diminish a person in that situation.

This economic implosion may carry with it some subtle "perks" as more and more people glimpse life on the other side of that steady paycheck. Seems to me we're apt, as a nation, to go one of two ways -- either we'll become MORE stingy with what we have, and more strongly enforce the divide between the haves and the have nots, or we'll turn to bridge building of a sort, and not be so quick to judge those in the grocery store line ahead of them with that "food stamp" card.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

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Psych Lit wrote:

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i expect that most of the people who panhandle are giving me a story. they really dont need bus fare or the big mac but they do need to feed their addiction.

 

-- Edited by Psych Lit at 11:46, 2009-03-08

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Psych Lit wrote:

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My Turn wrote:

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just the other day i saw one of the homeless guys holding a sign....but instead of the usual, will work for food...this one said: "why lie. need beer. "

 

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gonna try to get this in before the power goes off again. got the electrician and helper playing with the switches..argghh.

there is some truth to this sign and exploring that truth often makes people uncomfortable. is alcoholism or substance abuse a disease or is there some choice involved in it that speaks to morality or character etc.
an alcoholic who does not get alcohol can have a variety of responses to that from irritability to death. so to me its a medical issue. id be really happy if they had vouchers available for long term substance abuse programs, half way houses, job placement and long term follow up. really id kick in some big bills for those vouchers. but what to do about the person who is addicted with no place to go to deal with that due to budget cuts or lack of facility beds.  right now someone who is dealing with withdrawal has the option to go to a public hospital who can see them thru the immediate detox problem but without the resources of follow up care thats a revolving door situation.  i expect that most of the people who panhandle are giving me a story. they really dont need bus fare or the big mac but they do need to feed their addiction. im not much liking that but im also not seeing much of an alternative

 

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But there are medical alternatives available. In pill form, versus bottle.  As for Florida? The place this state had for alcoholics and lifelong deadbeats that refused any form of reform is called "Michigan" and "Ohio". Because that's where the majority, and there is census documentation to that regard, returned to when alcoholism was no longer an eligible criteria for disability/SSI. And to be fair, not all states have a requirement, if yours does, to provide anything beyond immediate urgent care in a public hospital. There is no Patient Bill of Rights, here, that includes housing the long term substance abuse patient on the publics dime. They are not hotels.  Discharge to community counseling or a primary care with a prescription for lithium is all that's needed to revolve and close that door. But, the emergent part of the situation is presumably under control. The pre-amble to step one, I guess.

My Turn wrote:

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just the other day i saw one of the homeless guys holding a sign....but instead of the usual, will work for food...this one said: "why lie. need beer. "

 

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