Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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BoxDog wrote:

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Psych Lit wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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See? After all that, there is still an acknowledgement of "homosexual" people -- even though God has "broken the power of homosexuality."

Here's what's most disturbing to me, I guess: I found this site (the original) on a school sanctioned page for middle school debates -- it was under homosexuality -- con. So not only is this a matter of debate (and again, SCHOOL SANCTIONED) but kids are being exposed to this kind of crap as part of their homework. Yeah, okfine, I do believe in some matters it's great to hear both sides, but really, there are some things which ... I dunno. I didn't see any page for heterosexuality pro and con. It disturbs me to think of kids debating this. I know it's questioned in the real world and all, so I puzzle at my irritation that its being presented to would-be debaters, but I was curious as to what about it is worth debating in the first place.

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im in agreement with you on this one. how can people be so bright and yet so..well..blind? i wonder if they really cant see that there is another side of this story and a view that would look very different were they to attempt to see it. also i cant imagine who or why someone would sign on to be a "reparative therapist."
makes me wonder about counter transference issues. the argument that people should be free to choose to not be queer or to die trying is a very difficult one for me to accept from those who dont see the other side of it. the choice to be heterosexual and what they might feel if someone came to them and asked them to make them queer. it seems completely unethical to me to promote anything that isnt aimed at a healthy self acceptance. it creates a set up for all sorts of bad outcomes. 

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Oh, while I'm signed in and at home, I wanted to note that this anon isn't me. I know exactly how someone can be so bright and blind simultaneously, it's called focus. It's not well rounded, but it does answer that question neatly. There's a lurker! Whee! 

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Well, actually that anonymous was me. But I don't know how I ended up being anonymous ... I don't think I was when I posted it. It's been a long day, though. I guess it's possible.              

                                                       

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I never would have guessed you. I had to question it a few times really. As if maybe I did write it. But no, I know exactly how people can be so bright and so blind.

I can be the poster child for the Bright though Blind Campaign. :)

So maybe it isn't our memory that starts to "go first". Good to know! But what does that leave? Don't even start suggesting...I want the memory to go FIRST!

Psych Lit wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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See? After all that, there is still an acknowledgement of "homosexual" people -- even though God has "broken the power of homosexuality."

Here's what's most disturbing to me, I guess: I found this site (the original) on a school sanctioned page for middle school debates -- it was under homosexuality -- con. So not only is this a matter of debate (and again, SCHOOL SANCTIONED) but kids are being exposed to this kind of crap as part of their homework. Yeah, okfine, I do believe in some matters it's great to hear both sides, but really, there are some things which ... I dunno. I didn't see any page for heterosexuality pro and con. It disturbs me to think of kids debating this. I know it's questioned in the real world and all, so I puzzle at my irritation that its being presented to would-be debaters, but I was curious as to what about it is worth debating in the first place.

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im in agreement with you on this one. how can people be so bright and yet so..well..blind? i wonder if they really cant see that there is another side of this story and a view that would look very different were they to attempt to see it. also i cant imagine who or why someone would sign on to be a "reparative therapist."
makes me wonder about counter transference issues. the argument that people should be free to choose to not be queer or to die trying is a very difficult one for me to accept from those who dont see the other side of it. the choice to be heterosexual and what they might feel if someone came to them and asked them to make them queer. it seems completely unethical to me to promote anything that isnt aimed at a healthy self acceptance. it creates a set up for all sorts of bad outcomes. 

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Oh, while I'm signed in and at home, I wanted to note that this anon isn't me. I know exactly how someone can be so bright and blind simultaneously, it's called focus. It's not well rounded, but it does answer that question neatly. There's a lurker! Whee! 

Psych Lit wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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I think I can tell you where they, and your pal with the dog hang out -- they're all AOL fashion critics.

I just read the article about M. Obama's Vogue piece, and then glance at the comments -- here's what I found:

(2117)

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Krazyman12345

08:33 PMFeb 14 2009

What class big a## and buck teeth give us a break what a joke historyman lowering the stanster in the whitehouse with trash dressing and wanting to start parting with our enmey and then free the rest from prison

It's downright scary sometimes, isn't it ...
I forget about these kinds of people sometimes. Too often, perhaps. Funny thing about the cyber world -- the bigots feel more free to say what's REALLY on their mind, without repercussion. I wonder what percentage of people are still focused on the color of the Obama's skin?

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 it is scary and humanity at its ugliest. i still say the hardest thing in the world would be to live inside the head of people like this. must be a very horrid way to walk thru life

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Over the years, I've hosted many AOL boards.  You would think I would be used to the ignorance of humanity by now. 

I was a host for the News Channel after 9/11.  Oh my...every racist remark you could ever imagine, and even a few you couldn't, hit those boards.  You couldn't keep up either.  It wasn't unusual to have over 1,000 posts per hour.

There was one event that really got me, and it was probably my first exposure to mass message board vomit.  I was in the Help Community, when Auto came begging for help after Dale Earnhardt died, so I volunteered.

The bile that people spewed on that board was unbelievable.  The man had just died in a horrible accident, and posts of raping his wife, or hoping his kid is next, rot in hell.  I mean it was just amazing.  I can see not liking him as a driver, but did all these people really know him well enough to hate him THAT much?

Psych Lit wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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I hate that this happened to you at all. Much less at WW, in w.ma ma and on this planet. It's wrong. These are the things that make me really look long and hard at role models. We're all one someones. Wonder whos bad example he's setting. And who set his.  

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yanno i dont know. i think peer pressure accounts for some of it. having to be a "tough guy" trying to cultivate that good ole boy thing too. there is no shortage of crazies in the world tho is there? i was reading in one of the ct papers this week that 5 young men were arrested for a hate crime. they invited a black coworker to a party and tried to beat him senseless while hurling racial epithets at him. later, when he escaped, these perps called the police and said that they had experienced a break in and had fought the home invader. problem with this lame excuse is that they were coworkers of the guy they beat up. didnt they think anyone would find this out? 3 of these young men are kids from the burbs and the other 2 are urban and one of the city kids had some prison time under his belt where apparently he joined the white brotherhood or some such nonsense. im sure that the kids from the burbs were completely taken in by someone who had that kind of street cred and wanted a little to rub off on them.  people will do things in groups that they would never do alone.  the idiot in the wally parking lot had that look in his eye that said im a crazy f uck so go ahead provoke me and ive learned to recognize that look and not provoke the idiot in possession of it.

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I think I can tell you where they, and your pal with the dog hang out -- they're all AOL fashion critics.

I just read the article about M. Obama's Vogue piece, and then glance at the comments -- here's what I found:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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You have to wonder about "Homosexuals Anonymous" and if even they 

take themselves seriously. If they did, one would think they'd have come up with a better name than "HA!"

 

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 LOL. thats what i thought when i saw that...blink...blink...im thinking SHA might be a good one. self haters anon. or AHA! a sshole homophobe association.

MyCat8it wrote:

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My heart really goes out to the dog who will never have the opportunity to live a puppy's life and love everyone unconditionally.  People should have to pass a compassion and responsibility test before being allowed to own pets.

 

yeah thats what i was thinking too. the dog looked young. it made me sad to think that they probably beat it to make it mean and aggressive. i year from now it would probably take out the window to get someone rather than go all soft and cuddly. i think this is one of the big problems with the pet getting system. you can buy a dog if youre ted bundy..er...even in his present state:0 but if you want to adopt from a shelter theres a whole lot of hoops to jump thru. people with bad intent can still get an animal, they only need to pay the bucks.

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Fourteen Steps of Homosexuals Anonymous

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1.  We admitted that we were powerless over our homosexuality and that our emotional lives were unmanageable.

Okay, we acknowledge the fact that we love differently than heteros.

2.  We came to believe the love of God, who forgave us and accepted us in spite of all that we are and have done.

We have been bad.  Very bad.  But God loves us anyway.  We are ashamed of ourselves and not deserving of respect or love from our families and the general public.

3.  We learned to see that there was purpose in our suffering, and that our failed lives were under God's control, who is able to bring good out of trouble.

We failed at life, but there's a really good reason for that, even if God is the only one who knows what that reason is.  We're still failures, though.

4.  We came to believe that God had already broken the power of homosexuality and that He could therefore restore our true personhood.

God wants me to be straight.  If I try really, really hard, I think I can make him/her proud of me again.

5. We came to perceive that we had accepted a lie about ourselves, an illusion that had trapped us in a false identity.

When I was trying to be straight, I felt like a fish out of water, but this time it will feel like a comfortable old shoe because someone told me it would.

6.  We learned to claim our true reality that as mankind, we are part of God's heterosexual creation, and that God calls us to rediscover that identity in Him through Jesus Christ as our faith perceives Him.

I'm a heterosexual creation, because God only makes heterosexuals.

7.  We resolved to entrust our lives to our loving God and to live by faith, praising Him for our new unseen identity, confident that it would become visible to us in God's good time.

I still feel gay, but I trust God to make that go away.

8.  As forgiven people free from condemnation, we made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, determined to root out fear, hidden hostility, and contempt for the world.

I may feel condemned while alive, but it will all be worth it when I die.  I do not feel contempt, I do not feel contempt.

9.  We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs and humbly asked God to remove our defects of character.

I am a moral defect.  Please save me from myself.

10.  We willingly made direct amends wherever wise and possible to all people we had harmed.

Is this like the step in AA where you call everyone you ever wronged and make amends?  Will I need to call every ex-girlfriend and apologize for demoralizing them?  Okay...are they really trying to equate homosexuality with alcoholism here?

11.  We determined to live no longer in fear of the world, believing that God's victorious control turns all that is against us into our favor, bringing advantage out of sorrow and order out of disorder.

I will no longer be afraid to go into a straight bar.  Everyone there will think I'm straight and no one will try to beat the snot out of me.

12.  We determined to mature in our relationships with men and women, learning the meaning of a partnership of equals, seeking neither dominance over people nor servile dependency on them.

I'm on a mission to find my heterosexual partner.  I may never want to sleep with him/her, or have any emotional connection, but we will be equals and it will be a successful partnership, because Step 12 tells me so. 

13.  We sought thorough confident praying, and the wisdom of Scripture for an ongoing growth in our relationship with God and a humble acceptance of His guidance for our lives.

I pray, therefore, I am.

14.  Having had a spiritual awakening,we tried to carry this message to homosexual people with a love that demands nothing and to practice these steps in all our lives' activities, as far as lies within us.

Now that I'm cured, I must go out and cure others!




OMG...Who writes this crap?  Failed life.  God's heterosexual creation.

Psych Lit wrote:

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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Doesn't get any simpler than this. It just "ain't Christain" to be qu**r.
We hear it over, and over, and OVER again.

And people wonder why I don't run to religion for inspiration and guidance.

I think it's good go be reminded every now and again of the kind of propoganda we're up against. This is one (and just one) site. Busy little butt-heads, aren't they ...

And who ASKED them? What BUSINESS is it of THEIRS?
Why do they MAKE it their business???

Because it lifts them up in some way? head on the boot of another?  I dunno. i dont think religion has much to do with it other than being a point of organizing for some really backwards ill people and some people who have been taught to think that way. its something to latch onto and rally around. this is where i think education comes in and being visible in the community. when and if they are liberated from all of their ideologies of difference their world will change and expand.  its so much harder to hate people who lend ya lunch money when you forget your wallet or ask after your sick relative or bring the covered dish when youve suffered a loss. when a normal human face is placed on peoples fears they tend to call them into question themselves. baby steps to quote what about bob.  That article i posted a week or so back, my sisters keeper, where the lesbian community located itself right in the middle of an area where you might expect them to have difficulties and instead the townspeople embraced them.

Hunh. Now, see, I didn't get that at all, from the article. My sense was, they were pretty much "closeted" and people outside their specific  community knew very little about them and thought of them as artisans -- don't recall their being lesbian even mentioned. Maybe I'm thinking of a different article.  

thats what i think is important to hold onto. there are far more people who are like that then the fred phelps types or even freds more benign cousin the founders of these lets save the queers people. id suggest an new meaning for HA. haters anon.

i had a homophobic moment in wallyworld parking lot in gay and lesbian loaded western ma last weekend. i was with a friend and we had just gone into wallys to get some new headphones for my mp3 and we were sitting in her car with the windows open cause it was nearly springlike lol. and i had given her the mp3 player to listen to a song that i wanted her to hear and there was this beautiful dog in the car next to us. looked like a pitt mix perhaps but he was barking and growling at us so i started speaking calmly to him and his head was tilting and he was listening and his fierceness went away and he was just adorable and then his owners emerged from wallys and they were er..backwoods types...banjo strumming here and the a ss hole driver smacked the dog and said get in the back! the dog was still focused on us so he started hitting it which made me confront the jerk who looks at me with about all the hate that he could manage and said, "i hope you die you f uc king

d yke.

all i could do was laugh at his silly a ss. and feel a little pity for him. oh how it must be to live in his world.

HA

haters anonymous

the woman who was with me who would have welcomed the opportunity to mix it up in the WW parking lot and rescue the nice dog from the knuckle draggers took off the headphones and said, "what did he say?" rather than risk the police arresting us all i could only respond with, "oh, about what youd think he'd say, lets go get lunch."

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See ... that kind of thing just (still) blows my mind. (Again) I'm so sorry that happened to you, Psych.

You have to wonder about "Homosexuals Anonymous" and if even they 

take themselves seriously. If they did, one would think they'd have come up with a better name than "HA!"

The previous post was brought to you by one ticked off BD.  Screw anon. ;)

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

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MyCat8it wrote:

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HA Fellowship Services. [Off-site link.] The 14 Steps of Homosexuals Anonymous form the basis for its meetings. Differences between Exodus International and HA Fellowship Services are listed, from a board member of a local HA group. Not an official statement by either organization.


___________________

I find sites like these amusing, but this 14 step program is just downright funny.  One can't help but notice that it takes two more steps to recover from homosexuality as it does from alcoholism.

                 

Step #1: Don't be born
Step #2: Lose the Ruby Slippers

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Actually, the real site is funnier than that, although it starts out pretty much the same way, I find the following in bold particularly interesting -- also, that it's written largely in past tense: 

Return to home page of Christianity and homosexuality.

What is HA?

Homosexuals Anonymous (HA) is a Christian fellowship of men and women who have chosen to help each other live free from homosexuality. The purpose of HA is to support individuals seeking that freedom through weekly group meetings where guidance is received through the shared experience and growth of others. Strength is acquired by traning the faith response through the 14 Steps of HA which lead to new perceptions of God, self, and the world. HA is a non-sectarian self-help group and works inter-denominationally. It does not endorse or oppose any political causes nor does it engage in controversial issues.

Fourteen Steps of Homosexuals Anonymous

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1. We admitted that we were powerless over our homosexuality and that our emotional lives were unmanageable.
2. We came to believe the love of God, who forgave us and accepted us in spite of all that we are and have done.
3. We learned to see that there was purpose in our suffering, and that our failed lives were under God's control, who is able to bring good out of trouble.
4. We came to believe that God had already broken the power of homosexuality and that He could therefore restore our true personhood.
5. We came to perceive that we had accepted a lie about ourselves, an illusion that had trapped us in a false identity.
6. We learned to claim our true reality that as mankind, we are part of God's heterosexual creation, and that God calls us to rediscover that identity in Him through Jesus Christ as our faith perceives Him.
7. We resolved to entrust our lives to our loving God and to live by faith, praising Him for our new unseen identity, confident that it would become visible to us in God's good time.
8. As forgiven people free from condemnation, we made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, determined to root out fear, hidden hostility, and contempt for the world.
9. We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs and humbly asked God to remove our defects of character.
10. We willingly made direct amends wherever wise and possible to all people we had harmed.
11. We determined to live no longer in fear of the world, believing that God's victorious control turns all that is against us into our favor, bringing advantage out of sorrow and order out of disorder.
12. We determined to mature in our relationships with men and women, learning the meaning of a partnership of equals, seeking neither dominance over people nor servile dependency on them.
13. We sought thorough confident praying, and the wisdom of Scripture for an ongoing growth in our relationship with God and a humble acceptance of His guidance for our lives.
14. Having had a spiritual awakening, we tried to carry this message to homosexual people with a love that demands nothing and to practice these steps in all our lives' activities, as far as lies within us.

Last modified 1 March 1997.

See? After all that, there is still an acknowledgement of "homosexual" people -- even though God has "broken the power of homosexuality."

Here's what's most disturbing to me, I guess: I found this site (the original) on a school sanctioned page for middle school debates -- it was under homosexuality -- con. So not only is this a matter of debate (and again, SCHOOL SANCTIONED) but kids are being exposed to this kind of crap as part of their homework. Yeah, okfine, I do believe in some matters it's great to hear both sides, but really, there are some things which ... I dunno. I didn't see any page for heterosexuality pro and con. It disturbs me to think of kids debating this. I know it's questioned in the real world and all, so I puzzle at my irritation that its being presented to would-be debaters, but I was curious as to what about it is worth debating in the first place.

HA Fellowship Services. [Off-site link.] The 14 Steps of Homosexuals Anonymous form the basis for its meetings. Differences between Exodus International and HA Fellowship Services are listed, from a board member of a local HA group. Not an official statement by either organization.


___________________

I find sites like these amusing, but this 14 step program is just downright funny.  One can't help but notice that it takes two more steps to recover from homosexuality as it does from alcoholism.