I was thinking about the subject line as I was reading this article about Tom Hanks' really good comments about prop 8 (IMO) and the comments of some of the LDS readers.
i saw this too and was pleased that he made this statement. hes a popular person in the minds of most americans and his support for the armed services has given him an audience that needs (imo) to hear his message on this.
I have some Mormon friends -- people who have treated me well, knowing full well I'm lesbian. I suspect all relationships ultimately hinge upon mutual respect and civility within the confines of the relationship. I cannot imagine, stepping outside those relationships, and into the broader picture, those people, those friends, actually wishing to deny me equal rights, or in any way harm me, and yet .... if their church says they must ... if their relationship with their church, which is, to them, a sacred covenant, insists "God" wants things a certain way... how do people work through that?
i think most people are able to hold in abeyance those aspects of their religion that they dont feel comfortable with. and acting in accordance with ones conscience seems to be a way to frame this. also i think people are able to separate in their minds the idea that while they can believe that god instructs certain non negotiables its often the interpretation of those laws by men that is in question. especially when those interpretations are not a verbatim command from the diety if that is possible. one of the worst things ive seen was back in 04 when the pope suggested that kerry and all other catholic politicians who supported pro-choice legislation be excommunicated. thats been modified to self excommumication. there is as we speak a whole reworking of the church vs state ideology tho perhaps its been back burnered in light of todays festivities.
i know for me this was a difficult struggle since there is much to embrace in catholicism. and my way of handling this was to embrace the love and social justice aspects of the religion but to shift my allegiances and wallet to the UU church.
i expect this is a far more difficult choice for those who are of the islamic faith these days. so many proclaiming the "truth" from a variety of directions with eternal damnation as the price for not going along.
I really felt for Joe Biden during the campaign ... felt for him because I truly believe him to be a proponent of "choice" and also a man of deep faith which is founded in the Catholic Church, which, of course, adamantly opposes choice.
yeah and i admire him for this too. for those who are true believers there is perhaps nothing worse than excommunication except perhaps being up there in years and being faced with excommunication. heaven is the goal for catholics and dying outside of a state of grace denies admission.
. The caveat there, is that it can be incredibly difficult to answer to myself sometimes -- perhaps more difficult than to face and a parish priest in a confessional.
i suspect the confessing to self is probably a bit easier than the forgiving of self. tho neither is partcularly easy i suppose.
I do have a special kind of compassion for those who truly struggle with this issue, though. I cannot wrap my brain around how truly difficult it must be for people to believe in their heart of hearts that they are straying from the dictates of their "Heavenly Father" or other Supernatural being, let alone, their earthbound spiritual leaders.
i suspect that a lot of people feel anger at the politics involved in religion and who can really separate these things these days. if you believe that "god" is one manifestation but not necessarily the manifestation that those who are in charge of these churches put forth i think its easier to hold the faith while dismissing the filter thru which its delivered. or to research where these decisions spring from and what was going on contextually at the time. for me the struggle has been to support a religious institution when ive believed that its become corrupt and discriminatory. id say that the leaving the church in droves phenom suggests im not alone in feeling that way.
I was thinking about the subject line as I was reading this article about Tom Hanks' really good comments about prop 8 (IMO) and the comments of some of the LDS readers.
Typically, when I think on this issue (personal morality vs. one's church's) I think about Catholicism, and pretty specifically a woman's right to choice, although there are certainly plenty of other examples, both as far as issues and religions.
So how does a parishioner handle this dilemma? Is it possible to "pick and choose" from the list the religious organization to which one belongs hands them, if one believes the dictates are divinely inspired?
The Catholic Church and the Church of Latter-Day Saints both seem to be deeply instilled and tied to the family line from the moment of birth, and fairly rigidly enforced within one's own familial community from that time.
I know there's no "blanket" answer to this conundrum; that ultimately each person must decide for themselves how best to deal with it, but I do find it puzzling.
I have some Mormon friends -- people who have treated me well, knowing full well I'm lesbian. I suspect all relationships ultimately hinge upon mutual respect and civility within the confines of the relationship. I cannot imagine, stepping outside those relationships, and into the broader picture, those people, those friends, actually wishing to deny me equal rights, or in any way harm me, and yet .... if their church says they must ... if their relationship with their church, which is, to them, a sacred covenant, insists "God" wants things a certain way... how do people work through that?
I really felt for Joe Biden during the campaign ... felt for him because I truly believe him to be a proponent of "choice" and also a man of deep faith which is founded in the Catholic Church, which, of course, adamantly opposes choice.
I guess I'm glad I don't have to face this sort of problem, and indeed, the problem is one of the very reasons I don't adhere to any one faith. I believe I possess a solid moral foundation all on my own, without answering to anyone but myself, really, when it comes right down to it. The caveat there, is that it can be incredibly difficult to answer to myself sometimes -- perhaps more difficult than to face and a parish priest in a confessional.
I do have a special kind of compassion for those who truly struggle with this issue, though. I cannot wrap my brain around how truly difficult it must be for people to believe in their heart of hearts that they are straying from the dictates of their "Heavenly Father" or other Supernatural being, let alone, their earthbound spiritual leaders.
I've had a lot of gay friends who were raised in the LDS faith, and excommunicated when they came to terms with their own homosexuality. It must be a terrible thing to be "cast out" from something which has been at the core of your life since the moment of your birth, and with which, on all other fronts, one still feels an abiding connection. I know we all stray from teachings handed us as youth somewhat, but this personal determination vs. personal faith thing ... It must be just terribly terribly hard.
Anyway, here's the article, and a couple of comments out of a thousand which were visible to me on the same screen -- the anguish in being caught in this situation seems almost palpable, if one reads between the lines:
Hanks Bashes Mormons, Prop-8 Advocates
PopEater
posted: 3 DAYS 20 HOURS AGO
(Jan. 16) - At Wednesday night's 'Big Love' premiere party, Tom Hanks made his feelings about the Mormon Church's involvement in the passage of California's Prop 8 very clear, calling those against gay marriage "un-American."
Ironically, Hanks serves as the executive producer of HBO's controversial show, which focuses on a modern-day polygamist living in Utah with his three wives.
"The truth is this takes place in Utah, the truth is these people are some bizarre offshoot of the Mormon Church, and the truth is a lot of Mormons gave a lot of money to the church to make Prop-8 happen," he told
"There are a lot of people who feel that is un-American, and I am one of them. I do not like to see any discrimination codified on any piece of paper... A little bit of light can be shed and people can see who's responsible and that can motivate the next go around of our self correcting constitution and hopefully we can move forward instead of backwards. So lets have faith in not only the American, but Californian constitutional process," Hanks added.
'Big Love' has been a heated topic among the Mormon community. While most Mormons no longer practice polygamy, those who do say the show is an inaccurate representation of the love that these families actually have for one another.
* * *
THE COMMENTS:
CRR1100
07:49 AMJan 20 2009
You would BAN organized religion?? How can you ban something that our county was founded upon? I will say this as well, the Bible does say between one man and one woman, thats pretty clear, there really is no room for discussion.
JeffKeating
07:45 AMJan 20 2009
Who the heck cares what Tom Hanks or any other "A" list actor thinks. Acting does not make one intelligent nor does it grant them the ability to establish policy.
CRR1100
07:38 AMJan 20 2009
Well first of all Towagen let me ask you what the rate of aids is in South Africa, then, before you post a comment, maybe you should proof-read or learn to spell
StevieBHolland
07:37 AMJan 20 2009
How about we put a prop on the ballet to make it illigal for the "MORMANS" to come to anyones house and harrass them. That would pass and also lets make sure the punishment is death. there is no difference in prop H8 and this one
BUSTAU
07:33 AMJan 20 2009
Another liberal Hollyweirdo America hating dope!!
Donalddgp3
07:32 AMJan 20 2009
I would not begrudge the man his opinions, but it would be nice if people started referring to the members of the church correctly. They are not "Mormons"; they are latter-Day Saint, or LDS. The church is not called the "Mormon Church"; it is called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. If you want to have such strong opinions about something, you should be willing to at least correctly identify those you vilify.
ElvisLilFox
07:32 AMJan 20 2009
I am a Mormon and I do not believe in gay marriage. I care about the people that are gay,though I don't believe in their life style. Being gay goes against God as it tells you in the King James Bible..It says gays should be put to death, I think that is extreme, and I was taught to hate the sin but love the sinner. Being gay is a sin no matter how much people want to change it. Of course we all sin, and I would not be mean to a gay person just because I don't believe in being gay. Maybe God made gays to teach people not to hate. I hate no one and never have. We are all brothers and sisters and no one is any better then another.
sweeticeblossom
07:31 AMJan 20 2009
I am a Latter day Saint and I can not speak for the church or it's general authorites, nor would I. I know that our church supports marriage between a man and a woman. I personally have no disrespect to those in the gay community. I have friends who are gay and who now hate me for being a Latter Day Saint even tho I do not hate on them. I personally support a law that would make a "civil union" rather than "marriage" which is sacred and ordained of Heavenly Father for a man and woman. Civil unions would help them have rights to their partners (which it is unfair they have none). I believe Tom Hanks may have issues with our religion to begin with. Big Love has really confused people about what we really believe. Please do not hate us for supporting what we believe to be right about marriage and it's sacredness. With respect.
It must be just terribly terribly hard. 