Where Everybody Knows You're Numb

My Turn · Senior Member

RE: Clarification would have helped...

Nightowlhoot3 · Guru

WWHD?
(What Would Hillary Do?)

NOT THIS!!! disbelief

If I'm not invited to sit at Rick Warren's table, why on earth would I sanction his giving the invocation at mine? I am still an American citizen, and while I may not yet have equal rights in several arenas, one would think the installation of the president of the United States would not be yet another area where I'm not fully welcomed to be.

"Diversity of thought?" Give me a freakin' break. It's not "diversity" if one of your two guys is summarily banishing ten percent of the population.

This is just plain ole outright pandering to the Right-wing evangelical faction. All this BS about "diversity" makes me wanna laugh (or cry.) Who does he think he's kidding here, really? Oh, sure, I know those who've long had that school-girl crush adoration thing going with him will probably buy into it, but other than that??

If he wanted to promote diversity, he could have done a hell of a better job, IMO. Rick Warren is the anti-diversity minister, to begin with. Want diversity? Have the invocation given by a practicioner of Islam. Too much? OK, but how about giving the stage to one non-Christian, since there are a couple of slots available for filling. Or even a Quaker, a rabbi, or a Unitarian minister, for crying out loud. Yeah, on the surface, it's a slick political gotcha, but the premise is faulty. There's no balance in his two choices -- yeah, the other guy is a civil rights leader, but I don't buy the notion that "diversity" includes those who stand steadfastly against it. Diversity means bringing more into the fold, not honoring those who would begin excluding people who are different from them.

The symbolism of this honored appointment is a crushing blow to gay and lesbian people, as well as those who favor choice. It's truly a real slap in the face, IMO. And that he's giving the invocation, for crying out loud ... the very beginning of Obama's presidency, and who does he chose to start the ball rolling?? Politics is hugely about symbolism. Well, everything is, I suppose. But GWB didn't wrap his arm around that old boy in the rubble of the twin towers because he felt particularly friendly towards him -- it was the political symbol which mattered to him. It's the same reasons politicians roll up their shirt sleeves, when they're doing photo ops with "the comman folk." Crimeny, it's why Obama went bowling (even though he didn't take his tie off) during the campaign. The symbol.

And he has selected Rick Warren as the person to begin his installation as president. Well? Message received loud and clear, Barry. This how you want to begin your presidency? Blatant pandering to right wing homophobes? Go right ahead, but as far as I'm concerned, on January 20th at noon, the honeymoon is over, and if this... this ... is how you want to start the ball rolling, then so be it.

IMO, this guy just needs to steer clear of ministers period for a while.

And me too, come to think of it...

-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 10:20, 2008-12-20

Nightowlhoot3 · Guru

MyCat8it wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

(a youtube video not worthy of repeating)

So, is this the guy that's going to deliver the opening prayer at the inauguration? I honestly didn't know who he was. Thanks for the video.

UGH!

-- Edited by MyCat8it at 08:49, 2008-12-20

Yeah, he's actively anti-choice, too, and pushes it from the pulpit. That he even had Obama in his church for an interview caused a lot of uproar from that faction. Here's an interesting flashback (of special note -- along with the first signature) is the part they put in bold, which I've highlighted in red. Seems an odd notion, to me...

Rick Warren/Barack Obama AIDS Partnership Must End, Say Pro-Life Groups

Contact: Kevin McCullough, WMCA Radio, New York City, 201-835-7803; or
Ingrid Schlueter, VCY America Radio Network, Milwaukee, 414-881-5852

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin, Nov. 28 /Christian Newswire/ -- As those who have worked to defend preborn children from the horrors of abortion in America and who have stood uncompromisingly against the legalized slaughter of an estimated 50 million Americans in the womb since 1973, we join with one voice in expressing our indignation and opposition to Rick Warren's welcoming of Senator Barack Obama to his church on December 1, 2006. Rick Warren is bringing Senator Obama to his church to speak for his Global Summit on AIDS and the church and to take an AIDS test in front of the cameras at a noon press conference.

Senator Obama comes to Rick Warren's church believing that abortion should be kept, "safe and legal". When Barack Obama campaigned for the U.S. Senate in 2004, his wife wrote a fundraising letter for him that revealed his support of partial-birth abortion. She said Obama's position is that the "partial-birth abortion ban . . . is clearly unconstitutional and must be overturned." Support of partial-birth abortion goes a lot farther than the politicians who want abortion to be "safe and legal." Senator Obama actually supports the barbaric practice of allowing abortionists to kill babies by allowing them to be partially, born, their skulls punctured and their brains sucked out. Further, he repeatedly opposed an anti-infanticide bill in the state of Illinois that only passed after he left. Killing a child at any stage of life is a violation of God's clear command, "Thou Shall Do No Murder". In addition,Obama's solution to the growing AIDS crisis has been and continues to be the widespread distribution of condoms, not chaste behavior as directed by the Bible.

In the strongest possible terms, we oppose Rick Warren's decision to ignore Senator Obama's clear pro-death stance and invite him to Saddleback Church anyway. If Senator Obama cannot defend the most helpless citizens in our country, he has nothing to say to the AIDS crisis. You cannot fight one evil while justifying another. The evangelical church can provide no genuine help for those who suffer from AIDS if those involved do not first have their ethic of life firmly rooted in the Word of God. Accordingly, we call on Pastor Rick Warren to rescind his invitation to Senator Obama immediately. The millions of silent victims who have died because of the policies of leaders like Senator Obama demand a response from those who believe that life is a gift from God. The name of the seminar at which Senator Obama will be appearing is entitled, " We Must Work Together." No, Mr. Warren, Mr. Obama, we will never work with those can support the murder of babies in the womb.

Phyllis Schlafly, President and Founder, Eagle Forum

Judie Brown, President, American Life League

Tim Wildmon, President American Family Association and American Family Radio

Joe Scheidler, President, Pro-Life Action League

Cheryl Sullenger, Operation Rescue

Matt Trewhella, Missionaries to the Preborn

Brannon Howse, President, Worldview Weekend, Christian Worldview Network

Janet Folger, President, Faith2Action

Peter LaBarbera, President, Americans for Truth

Greg Cunningham, President, Center for Bioethical Reform, Lake Forest, California

Peggy Hamill, Director, Pro-Life Wisconsin

Cal Zastrow, Christian Action for the Preborn

Dr. Vic Eliason, President, VCY America Radio Network

Ingrid Schlueter, Host, Crosstalk Radio Talk Show

Kevin McCullough, Host, Musclehead Revolution, WMCA Radio

Chris Rosebrough, Capo Valley Church, San Juan Capistrano, California

Rev. Ken Silva, Apprising Ministries

Linda Harvey, President, Mission America

-----------------------------

I daresay Mother Teresa would have vehemently disagreed...

MyCat8it · Senior Member

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

(a youtube video not worthy of repeating)

So, is this the guy that's going to deliver the opening prayer at the inauguration? I honestly didn't know who he was. Thanks for the video.

UGH!

-- Edited by MyCat8it at 08:49, 2008-12-20

Nightowlhoot3 · Guru

My Turn · Senior Member

BoxDog wrote:

My Turn wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

When, in his victory speech Obama said:

"...As Lincoln said to a nation far more divided than ours, "We are not enemies, but friends... Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection." And, to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn, I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president, too."

It would have helped, if he'd been more specific, and added:

"And by 'you' I mean you right-wing evangelical anti-gay voters who have also rallied tonight to ensure GLBT people across the land will be denied their equality in this great nation -- I'll show you I'm on your side, even if only symbolically, at first ... watch my inauguration -- even the most dense of you will be able to read between the lines."

and then, called Donnie onto the stage for a few tunes.

"Divisive: creating disunity or dissension"

can you expand on this a bit....i have to admit i dont know what this means....i dont watch tv and i have been so wrapped up on writing an ethics paper (yay! finished last night!! cant wait to see the grade) that i have not been following current events.....

I never thought I'd say this to anyone. The best and the worst of ethics IS on television. Frankly I can't see writing a paper, or even discussing ethics, good, bad or questionable without including television. There's little left of ethics in journalism, print or other. Regardless, good luck on the paper. It has to be difficult to write one without watching tv or following current events.

i absolutely agree with you....however, i am not much of a tv watcher...thats just me. and this class was not, surprisingly to me too, focused much on current events....most was focused on past cases. and for the final paper we were given two cases to research, summarize, and analyze the case, and discuss the ramifications of public perception and the impact on the offices, entities, and people involved....all i can say is, i am not the professor nor have i ever taken a previous ethics class, so i dont know what to tell you on that....i just do what i am told... smile

i normally do follow current events, except for this past crunch time on the final paper...just not on tv...i think the last time i watched a good portion of tv coverage was election night....i am not opposed to tv...just doesnt interest me much...which is good cause no one ever has to worry about what i may want to watch...if i have my 'puter, i am good to go....someone could take my tv and cable out tomorrow and it would truly not bother me....now take my internet away and i am way outta sorts....!

-- Edited by My Turn at 08:43, 2008-12-20

BoxDog · Guru

My Turn wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

When, in his victory speech Obama said:

"...As Lincoln said to a nation far more divided than ours, "We are not enemies, but friends... Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection." And, to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn, I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president, too."

It would have helped, if he'd been more specific, and added:

"And by 'you' I mean you right-wing evangelical anti-gay voters who have also rallied tonight to ensure GLBT people across the land will be denied their equality in this great nation -- I'll show you I'm on your side, even if only symbolically, at first ... watch my inauguration -- even the most dense of you will be able to read between the lines."

and then, called Donnie onto the stage for a few tunes.

"Divisive: creating disunity or dissension"

can you expand on this a bit....i have to admit i dont know what this means....i dont watch tv and i have been so wrapped up on writing an ethics paper (yay! finished last night!! cant wait to see the grade) that i have not been following current events.....

I never thought I'd say this to anyone. The best and the worst of ethics IS on television. Frankly I can't see writing a paper, or even discussing ethics, good, bad or questionable without including television. There's little left of ethics in journalism, print or other. Regardless, good luck on the paper. It has to be difficult to write one without watching tv or following current events.

My Turn · Senior Member

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

When, in his victory speech Obama said:

"...As Lincoln said to a nation far more divided than ours, "We are not enemies, but friends... Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection." And, to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn, I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president, too."

It would have helped, if he'd been more specific, and added:

"And by 'you' I mean you right-wing evangelical anti-gay voters who have also rallied tonight to ensure GLBT people across the land will be denied their equality in this great nation -- I'll show you I'm on your side, even if only symbolically, at first ... watch my inauguration -- even the most dense of you will be able to read between the lines."

and then, called Donnie onto the stage for a few tunes.

"Divisive: creating disunity or dissension"

can you expand on this a bit....i have to admit i dont know what this means....i dont watch tv and i have been so wrapped up on writing an ethics paper (yay! finished last night!! cant wait to see the grade) that i have not been following current events.....

Nightowlhoot3 · Guru

When, in his victory speech Obama said:

"...As Lincoln said to a nation far more divided than ours, "We are not enemies, but friends... Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection." And, to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn, I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president, too."

It would have helped, if he'd been more specific, and added:

"And by 'you' I mean you right-wing evangelical anti-gay voters who have also rallied tonight to ensure GLBT people across the land will be denied their equality in this great nation -- I'll show you I'm on your side, even if only symbolically, at first ... watch my inauguration -- even the most dense of you will be able to read between the lines."

and then, called Donnie onto the stage for a few tunes.

"Divisive: creating disunity or dissension"