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Nightowlhoot3


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RE: Olberman video clip
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Psych Lit wrote:

BoxDog wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

My Turn wrote:

i stand corrected. thank you. yes, the LDS are no longer practicing open polygamy after caving to government pressures in the late 1800's - early 1990's. the last of the LDS polygamists were allowed to continue their polygamy until their deaths in the early 1950's. the misconception and misinformation comes from the mormons who still practice polygamy after breaking off from the LDS, and people, like me, wrongly lumping LDS mormons with the fundamentalist mormons.

my apologies for my mistake.


Hey, I hope you didn't think I was jumping down your throat, or anything; this is just one of those issues I feel obliged to address whenever it presents its self. The Mormon church seems to be largely a mystery to most who don't live in the American Southwest, and the media focus on the FLDS church in recent years has only deepened the mystery as well as the confusion. Those people you saw on the TV are as "Morman as David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were/are Seventh Day Adventist...


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 11:42, 2008-11-13
This reminds me of the gop race, early on. When clarifying his core beliefs, and defending the Mormon Church in general, Mitt Romney looked around at the gop candidates about to debate with him and made note that out of the entire group he was the only candidate with one wife, past or present. Pretty funny guy that night.





LOL. that is funny. i see mccain is talking to obama about his role in the upcoming administration and on the interview last night was asked if there would be republicans in the cabinet and he said yes and when asked if there would be more than one hedged. i wonder if mitt romney will be given some role?
question on the mormons. while they have banned polygamy are they tolerant of it? is it sort of a wink wink thing or are they really against it from a policy standpoint? ive wondered because it seems that some of these fringe groups gravitate to utah and the areas surrounding it and i wondered if that was because they would experience less harrassment from authorities?
I really don't think they do, but that's just my gut, and the Mormon people I've know for decade upon decade. Really? The typical Mormon family out here is ... well, there are still Temple secrets, and all, and marriage is still a biggie (to one person, who shares your faith) but other than that, if I were to generalize, I'd say they seemed like ... Episcopalians without as much money, and with more kids, and more musical talent. Really, just ... "wholesome" I guess would be the best description. They are the cheerleaders, the "Jr. Miss" winners, etc. That said, I had a lot of close Mormon friends in high school, and later in life, and I'm not sure why, really, except that we liked each other, which is the only reason why we should have been, really, I guess. Even so, I wasn't "Polly Pure" in high school by any stretch, and then some, but I didn't feel "judged" by them, if that makes sense. Just good, decent, politically conservative people. No smoking, no drinking coke, or coffee, and they substitute "Heavenly Father" for "God" in conversation, and if you have a good ear, and pay attention, there is even a very slight LDS dialect (weird, I know, but true) but cliche as this sounds, "Some of my best friends ..." 

As an adult, I was "out" to my Mormon friends. At least the ones I knew didn't try to change me, or even seem to care outwardly. One of them invited me to have Thanksgiving dinner with her family the year after my partner and I split (she knew us both, although me better) and I did go, and had a really wonderful time. She'd also invited two young men (boys, really) who were in town on their missions. I embarrassed one to the point of blushing by hugging him, and my friend just howled. Later, she told me that there's a thing about "touching" while you're on your mission. Anyway, if I hadn't felt I would have been comfortable at her table, I sure wouldn't have gone. I did, and I'm glad I did. Really, the FLDS church bears no resemblance as far as I can tell, to the present day (heh) Later Day Saints. The friend I spent Thanksgiving with? She was in a show I was running, which ran for ... well, years, and looked very hot in her "can-can girl" costume, which was basically a bustier with a very short (like mini, only shorter) skirt.


Just sitting here, looking, back, the one thing I can say about all the Mormon people I've known in my life is that they've been tremendously kind people, supportive of the Arts, and quick to laugh. That's not a religion thing, or a political thing, certainly, but that's been my personal experience. What the church proper does politically, isn't any more... well? I think, for instance, there are a lot of pro-choice Catholics, yanno? Same thing, in a way.  My friend was also a model as a younger woman... I cannot imagine her in one of those FLDS gunny sacks... or sharing her husband with any woman. Really -- in 2008, there is a definite line of separation between the two religious groups.



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Psych Lit


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BoxDog wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

My Turn wrote:

i stand corrected. thank you. yes, the LDS are no longer practicing open polygamy after caving to government pressures in the late 1800's - early 1990's. the last of the LDS polygamists were allowed to continue their polygamy until their deaths in the early 1950's. the misconception and misinformation comes from the mormons who still practice polygamy after breaking off from the LDS, and people, like me, wrongly lumping LDS mormons with the fundamentalist mormons.

my apologies for my mistake.


Hey, I hope you didn't think I was jumping down your throat, or anything; this is just one of those issues I feel obliged to address whenever it presents its self. The Mormon church seems to be largely a mystery to most who don't live in the American Southwest, and the media focus on the FLDS church in recent years has only deepened the mystery as well as the confusion. Those people you saw on the TV are as "Morman as David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were/are Seventh Day Adventist...


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 11:42, 2008-11-13
This reminds me of the gop race, early on. When clarifying his core beliefs, and defending the Mormon Church in general, Mitt Romney looked around at the gop candidates about to debate with him and made note that out of the entire group he was the only candidate with one wife, past or present. Pretty funny guy that night.




LOL. that is funny. i see mccain is talking to obama about his role in the upcoming administration and on the interview last night was asked if there would be republicans in the cabinet and he said yes and when asked if there would be more than one hedged. i wonder if mitt romney will be given some role?
question on the mormons. while they have banned polygamy are they tolerant of it? is it sort of a wink wink thing or are they really against it from a policy standpoint? ive wondered because it seems that some of these fringe groups gravitate to utah and the areas surrounding it and i wondered if that was because they would experience less harrassment from authorities?

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BoxDog


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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

My Turn wrote:

i stand corrected. thank you.  yes, the LDS are no longer practicing open polygamy after caving to government pressures in the late 1800's - early 1990's.  the last of the LDS polygamists were allowed to continue their polygamy until their deaths in the early 1950's.   the misconception and misinformation comes from the mormons who still practice polygamy after breaking off from the LDS, and people, like me, wrongly lumping LDS mormons with the fundamentalist mormons.

my apologies for my mistake.


Hey, I hope you didn't think I was jumping down your throat, or anything; this is just one of those issues I feel obliged to address whenever it presents its self. The Mormon church seems to be largely a mystery to most who don't live in the American Southwest, and the media focus on the FLDS church in recent years has only deepened the mystery as well as the confusion. Those people you saw on the TV are as "Morman as David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were/are Seventh Day Adventist...


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 11:42, 2008-11-13
This reminds me of the gop race, early on. When clarifying his core beliefs, and defending the Mormon Church in general, Mitt Romney looked around at the gop candidates about to debate with him and made note that out of the entire group he was the only candidate with one wife, past or present. Pretty funny guy that night.

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Nightowlhoot3


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My Turn wrote:

i stand corrected. thank you.  yes, the LDS are no longer practicing open polygamy after caving to government pressures in the late 1800's - early 1990's.  the last of the LDS polygamists were allowed to continue their polygamy until their deaths in the early 1950's.   the misconception and misinformation comes from the mormons who still practice polygamy after breaking off from the LDS, and people, like me, wrongly lumping LDS mormons with the fundamentalist mormons.

my apologies for my mistake.


Hey, I hope you didn't think I was jumping down your throat, or anything; this is just one of those issues I feel obliged to address whenever it presents its self. The Mormon church seems to be largely a mystery to most who don't live in the American Southwest, and the media focus on the FLDS church in recent years has only deepened the mystery as well as the confusion. Those people you saw on the TV are as "Morman as David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were/are Seventh Day Adventist...


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 11:42, 2008-11-13

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My Turn


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i stand corrected. thank you.  yes, the LDS are no longer practicing open polygamy after caving to government pressures in the late 1800's - early 1990's.  the last of the LDS polygamists were allowed to continue their polygamy until their deaths in the early 1950's.   the misconception and misinformation comes from the mormons who still practice polygamy after breaking off from the LDS, and people, like me, wrongly lumping LDS mormons with the fundamentalist mormons.

my apologies for my mistake.

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Nightowlhoot3


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My Turn wrote:

BoxDog wrote:

NOT the 2% of the Mormon vote. ....
A legal marriage is one between one woman and one man. Period.

ok...."only" 2% of the vote for denying a whole group of people equal rights came from mormons...BUT, $18 million, also came from that group.....a group that openly practices polygamy....

defined: Polygamy can be defined as any "form of marriage in which a person [has] more than one spouse."[1]

In social anthropology, polygamy is the practice of marriage to more than one spouse simultaneously.

does anyone else see the hypocrisy (defined: 1: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not ; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion) here...????



-- Edited by My Turn at 06:54, 2008-11-12

Whoa.... the Mormon Church of Latter Day Saints does not support polygamy.


Polygamy has been been banned by that church for over a hundred years.

As with Islam, a few renegade former members who branched off and formed their own extremist group gave the larger group an unearned bad rep.

Generalizations about either group based upon extremist former members acting in a manner contrary to the mother religion is a dangerous thing, IMO, and it's important we vigilantly refute whenever presented to us, the damning misinformation ASAP, IMO -- the islamophobia based upon that winning ADULT MIXED BEVERAGE <eyeroll> of ignorance and fear now running rampant in this country is, IMO, tragic, and I sure don't want to see the Mormons be next.



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 09:09, 2008-11-12

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My Turn


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BoxDog wrote:

NOT the 2% of the Mormon vote. ....
A legal marriage is one between one woman and one man. Period.

ok...."only" 2% of the vote for denying a whole group of people equal rights came from mormons...BUT, $18 million, also came from that group.....a group that openly practices polygamy....

defined: Polygamy can be defined as any "form of marriage in which a person [has] more than one spouse."[1]

In social anthropology, polygamy is the practice of marriage to more than one spouse simultaneously.

does anyone else see the hypocrisy (defined: 1: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not ; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion) here...????



-- Edited by My Turn at 06:54, 2008-11-12

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Nightowlhoot3


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BoxDog wrote:
... I tend to think his "special" comment regarding Prop 8 is to divert public attention from the statistical evidence that the Obama tide of votes, 90% of the black registered voters and 70% of the latinos are responsible for the result of that amendment. NOT the 2% of the Mormon vote. <BD


What you say is true, but I think we have to recognize too, that the Black vote only accounted for nine percent of the "yes" vote on prop 8, so really, we can't lay this at the Black or Latino/a communities' feet. This was passed largely by Anglo republican men.
LDS practicioners may have constituted only 2% of the vote, but they were instrumental in providing the money ($18 MILLION indirectly from the Mormon church??) and volunteer effort behind the proposition's passage.

Let's face it; "religion" passed this stinker. Homophobia is preached from Anglo, Hispanic, and Black pulpits. That's our enemy here, with this vote, IMO.

-----------------------------------
Now, that said, the PEOPLE of California have spoken, loudly and clearly. They have voted to revert back to the way things were. A legal marriage is one between one woman and one man. Period. <BD

The people spoke about interracial marriages too, in the same voice, but the US Supreme Court had the foresight in '67 to recognize that a majority cannot simply "vote" to deny citizens equality, and have it stand, that it is contrary to the very precepts of the constitution and our Democratic Republic -- that equal rights of the minority may not be denied by the majority. Here's a part of what Justice Warren said when delivering the majority (it was unanimous) opinion: 

  

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."



I believe the same applies in this case, and I just hope Justice Kennedy sees it the same way, when the time comes.
 
Here's Section 1 of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution: 

" All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 01:01, 2008-11-12

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My Turn


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the people have spoken??  that makes refusing equal rights to others, ok? it makes it ok, for a group of people who had equal marriage rights to have those rights taken away?  seriously???? i believe same-sex marriage will again be legalized in california, despite the 52% vote...and i hope its sooner than later...just as the courts overrode the will of the majority in ordering desegregation of public schools and public accommodations....and just as the courts ignored the demands of the electorate by opening voting to people of color and the right to marry to mixed-race couples, so too, will the courts, in defiance of the majority, (however slim that majority), reopen the doors of marriage to the gay community. the outrage with which society greeted these courageous and controversial court rulings was ultimately replaced by acceptance....the same needs to be done for me and all my gay/lesbian brothers and sisters...when it comes to equal rights for all, people have to do the "right" thing and not just what the majority decides. 

regardless of the messenger....you seriously feel that a majority of people should be allowed to strip or deny equal rights to a minority of people??weirdface..seriously???...wow. 

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BoxDog


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My Turn wrote:

please watch this video....it is very moving....and well worth forwarding....


http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 22425001/ vp/27652443# 27652443


I realize that my comment will seem brash, affrontive. It's the way I speak, to everyone or everything. If I offend anyone I hope it's known I don't mean anything personal. I am thankful that one right I do have is the one to determine what I deem "worth forwarding". Keith Olberman is among a very elite group of the most vile and bias commentators on and in broadcast journalism. Notwithstanding the fact that he hates women, openly weeps at the mere name "obama", he is disingenuous and I tend to think his "special" comment regarding Prop 8 is to divert public attention from the statistical evidence that the Obama tide of votes, 90% of the black registered voters and 70% of the latinos are responsible for the result of that amendment. NOT the 2% of the Mormon vote. Now, that said, the PEOPLE of California have spoken, loudly and clearly. They have voted to revert back to the way things were. A legal marriage is one between one woman and one man. Period. The CA Supreme Court decision was overturned by the voice of the voter. And, really, that is what we all want. Isn't it? The voters spoke. Keith Olberman is a piece of trash. Oops, did I say that? Yep. Sure did.



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My Turn


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please watch this video....it is very moving....and well worth forwarding....


http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 22425001/ vp/27652443# 27652443

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