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Post Info TOPIC: "STONEWALL IT!"


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RE: "STONEWALL IT!"
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Psych Lit wrote:

actually im thinking that its the politicians who are the victims in these scenarios. what is it about having one high achieving relative that makes some people act out in such ways? do you think its some sort of sibling rivalry gone awry or is it just that the lens of the world is upon them and that they were always a bit off? billy carter, hills brother,roger clinton, jebs brother george, the list goes on and on

 



LOL!

 




 



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BoxDog wrote:

 



Excellent point! I wonder just how much auntie obama has cost the State of MA Housing Authority, Dept of whatever provides food stamps and Medical benefits,  the Feds, Immigration, Appellate Courts and on and on. Betcha a good deal more than the  $400 Alaskas dumbest criminal stole from a neighhbor. But then again, there seems to be a consensus that Auntie Obama is a political victim and it's okay. <shrug>

actually im thinking that its the politicians who are the victims in these scenarios. what is it about having one high achieving relative that makes some people act out in such ways? do you think its some sort of sibling rivalry gone awry or is it just that the lens of the world is upon them and that they were always a bit off? billy carter, hills brother,roger clinton, jebs brother george, the list goes on and on

 




 



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Psych Lit wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

ashamed

Diana Palin, Sarah Palin's Sister-In-Law, Arrested For Breaking Into Home

Diana Palin, the half-sister of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband Todd, walks out of the courtroom after her arraignment in Palmer, Alaska Friday, April 3, 2009. Palin is charged with two counts of felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass and theft in connection with break-ins at a home in Wasilla.

ANCHORAGE, Alaska Police say Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's sister-in-law is accused of breaking into the same home twice to steal money.

Deputy Wasilla Police Chief Greg Wood says 35-year-old Diana Palin was arrested Thursday after she was confronted by the homeowner in the governor's hometown of Wasilla. She faces two counts of felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass and theft.

Wood says tire tracks and shoe prints tied Palin to another break-in Tuesday in which $400 was taken. Police have not tied Palin to another burglary at the home last week.

Governor spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton says Palin is the half sister of the governor's husband and the family has no comment.

Diana Palin's husband says his wife has a court-appointed attorney.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's the story, of a lovely lady
Who was bringing up three very lovely girls....
<snip>
... the Palin Bunch, the Palin Bunch,

Holy cow, who's it now? The Palin Bunnnnnnnnnnnnnnch.

 



ahh but shes real and people can relate to her family er issues. lol good god. this is worse than billy beer!

 



Excellent point! I wonder just how much auntie obama has cost the State of MA Housing Authority, Dept of whatever provides food stamps and Medical benefits,  the Feds, Immigration, Appellate Courts and on and on. Betcha a good deal more than the  $400 Alaskas dumbest criminal stole from a neighhbor. But then again, there seems to be a consensus that Auntie Obama is a political victim and it's okay. <shrug>

 



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

ashamed

Diana Palin, Sarah Palin's Sister-In-Law, Arrested For Breaking Into Home

Diana Palin, the half-sister of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband Todd, walks out of the courtroom after her arraignment in Palmer, Alaska Friday, April 3, 2009. Palin is charged with two counts of felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass and theft in connection with break-ins at a home in Wasilla.

ANCHORAGE, Alaska Police say Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's sister-in-law is accused of breaking into the same home twice to steal money.

Deputy Wasilla Police Chief Greg Wood says 35-year-old Diana Palin was arrested Thursday after she was confronted by the homeowner in the governor's hometown of Wasilla. She faces two counts of felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass and theft.

Wood says tire tracks and shoe prints tied Palin to another break-in Tuesday in which $400 was taken. Police have not tied Palin to another burglary at the home last week.

Governor spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton says Palin is the half sister of the governor's husband and the family has no comment.

Diana Palin's husband says his wife has a court-appointed attorney.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's the story, of a lovely lady
Who was bringing up three very lovely girls....
<snip>
... the Palin Bunch, the Palin Bunch,

Holy cow, who's it now? The Palin Bunnnnnnnnnnnnnnch.

 



ahh but shes real and people can relate to her family er issues. lol good god. this is worse than billy beer!

 



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ashamed

Diana Palin, Sarah Palin's Sister-In-Law, Arrested For Breaking Into Home

Diana Palin, the half-sister of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband Todd, walks out of the courtroom after her arraignment in Palmer, Alaska Friday, April 3, 2009. Palin is charged with two counts of felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass and theft in connection with break-ins at a home in Wasilla.

ANCHORAGE, Alaska Police say Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's sister-in-law is accused of breaking into the same home twice to steal money.

Deputy Wasilla Police Chief Greg Wood says 35-year-old Diana Palin was arrested Thursday after she was confronted by the homeowner in the governor's hometown of Wasilla. She faces two counts of felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass and theft.

Wood says tire tracks and shoe prints tied Palin to another break-in Tuesday in which $400 was taken. Police have not tied Palin to another burglary at the home last week.

Governor spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton says Palin is the half sister of the governor's husband and the family has no comment.

Diana Palin's husband says his wife has a court-appointed attorney.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's the story, of a lovely lady
Who was bringing up three very lovely girls....
<snip>
... the Palin Bunch, the Palin Bunch,

Holy cow, who's it now? The Palin Bunnnnnnnnnnnnnnch.



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

 

"...Later in the speech, she told a story about praying for strength before last October's Vice Presidential debate with Joe Biden in St. Louis.
"So I'm looking around for somebody to pray with, I just need maybe a little help, maybe a little extra," she said. "And the McCain campaign, love 'em, you know, they're a lot of people around me, but nobody I could find that I wanted to hold hands with and pray." As the crowd laughed, Palin grinned and said she meant no disrespect to the McCain campaign. She said she ultimately prayed with her daughter Piper.
The governor also took a shot at an environmental group fronted by actress Ashley Judd the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund that has mounted a campaign against the governor to halt the practice aerial wolf hunting in Alaska. Palin called on her fellow Republicans to "stand up to those goofy Defenders of Wildlife celebrity starlets who don't even know about Alaska."
She mocked the Obama administration's elimination of the term "enemy combatant" and reminded the crowd that "we're at war." She lauded former President Bush for his efforts to prevent another terrorist attack after September 11, standing up for the 43rd president even though "the political and media elite ridiculed and mocked him."
"It's no small accomplishment that no terrorist attack has occurred since 9/11," Palin said.
Adding her voice to the debate over the future of the GOP, Palin said the Republican Party would be happy to welcome Democrats and independents who might grow frustrated with Democratic overreach, but she rejected the suggestion that the party should become more moderate. Instead, she argued, Republicans need to better communicate their ideas.
"Sometimes, the middle of the fence is really the most uncomfortable place to be," she said. "How about we just keep it simple? To grow, we've got to be who we are."
-----------------------------------

Don't ever change, Sarah ...

 

if the last campaign was any indication we have a year of sporadic sarah and then its gonna be full on sarah for 2 years. ode to joy.


 



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

"...Later in the speech, she told a story about praying for strength before last October's Vice Presidential debate with Joe Biden in St. Louis.
 
"So I'm looking around for somebody to pray with, I just need maybe a little help, maybe a little extra," she said. "And the McCain campaign, love 'em, you know, they're a lot of people around me, but nobody I could find that I wanted to hold hands with and pray." As the crowd laughed, Palin grinned and said she meant no disrespect to the McCain campaign. She said she ultimately prayed with her daughter Piper.
 
The governor also took a shot at an environmental group fronted by actress Ashley Judd the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund that has mounted a campaign against the governor to halt the practice aerial wolf hunting in Alaska. Palin called on her fellow Republicans to "stand up to those goofy Defenders of Wildlife celebrity starlets who don't even know about Alaska."
 
She mocked the Obama administration's elimination of the term "enemy combatant" and reminded the crowd that "we're at war." She lauded former President Bush for his efforts to prevent another terrorist attack after September 11, standing up for the 43rd president even though "the political and media elite ridiculed and mocked him."
 
"It's no small accomplishment that no terrorist attack has occurred since 9/11," Palin said.
 
Adding her voice to the debate over the future of the GOP, Palin said the Republican Party would be happy to welcome Democrats and independents who might grow frustrated with Democratic overreach, but she rejected the suggestion that the party should become more moderate. Instead, she argued, Republicans need to better communicate their ideas.
 
"Sometimes, the middle of the fence is really the most uncomfortable place to be," she said. "How about we just keep it simple? To grow, we've got to be who we are."
-----------------------------------

Don't ever change, Sarah ...


That's exactly what we're going to do in a Palin and McCain administration.
Sarah Palin
Promoting herself to the top of the ticket in US presidential race, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, September 18, 2008.


until somebody answers for me what it is exactly that the vice president does every day.
- Her respons
e to late spring and early summer 2008 speculation that she might be the VP pick on the Republican ticket


change ?? 
not a chance ......



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"...Later in the speech, she told a story about praying for strength before last October's Vice Presidential debate with Joe Biden in St. Louis.
 
"So I'm looking around for somebody to pray with, I just need maybe a little help, maybe a little extra," she said. "And the McCain campaign, love 'em, you know, they're a lot of people around me, but nobody I could find that I wanted to hold hands with and pray." As the crowd laughed, Palin grinned and said she meant no disrespect to the McCain campaign. She said she ultimately prayed with her daughter Piper.
 
The governor also took a shot at an environmental group fronted by actress Ashley Judd the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund that has mounted a campaign against the governor to halt the practice aerial wolf hunting in Alaska. Palin called on her fellow Republicans to "stand up to those goofy Defenders of Wildlife celebrity starlets who don't even know about Alaska."
 
She mocked the Obama administration's elimination of the term "enemy combatant" and reminded the crowd that "we're at war." She lauded former President Bush for his efforts to prevent another terrorist attack after September 11, standing up for the 43rd president even though "the political and media elite ridiculed and mocked him."
 
"It's no small accomplishment that no terrorist attack has occurred since 9/11," Palin said.
 
Adding her voice to the debate over the future of the GOP, Palin said the Republican Party would be happy to welcome Democrats and independents who might grow frustrated with Democratic overreach, but she rejected the suggestion that the party should become more moderate. Instead, she argued, Republicans need to better communicate their ideas.
 
"Sometimes, the middle of the fence is really the most uncomfortable place to be," she said. "How about we just keep it simple? To grow, we've got to be who we are."
-----------------------------------

Don't ever change, Sarah ...


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My Turn wrote:


 







also, for someone with access to healthy care, and i am sure in her situation, she has excellant resources and is financially able to avail herself of them....i really doubt it was in her sixth month before she knew that baby had downs.  while she may not have opted for CVS, due to the higher risk potential....one test, the nuchal fold test test is done via ultrasound between 11 and 13 weeks gestation.  the AFP as you refer to it...and is now called the triple screen or most docs now perform the quad screen blood test, is done after 15 weeks and is basically not worth the time or money for those over the age of 30,

it does pick up other things besides down syndrome. i have an autistic child and it was the apf that picked that up. i had a follow up ultrasound which cleared downs and i declined to have the CVS or the amnio because abortion wasnt an option for me tho i agonized over that decision in the end those later tests didnt matter. But,  those early screening tests are important for everyone as they also picks up problems that can be repaired before birth and they are non invasive. the other options including  ultrasound have risks attached and most important they do allow women to know early on that something is amiss.  having an abortion at 23 weeks or 26 weeks is not going to be easy for any woman. by that point shes probably developed an emotional attachment to the fetus and all it represents, shes felt it move etc. the earlier the better to know what you may be up against.

i often work with young adults who have many issues and many of the issuses these kids have were diagnosed prior to birth by those very pre natal screening tests which allowed them the best and earliest interventions and the best possible outcomes.

for myself, i am quite tiny, only 100 lbs or less and 5'2", and even after my own 7 pregnancies (both mine and my surrogate babies) many...most people dont notice until after 25 weeks or so.....so it is definitely not out of the realm of possiblity that people didnt notice....especially if she was actively trying to hide it with carefully selected clothing. 


i had babies who weighed more than you. lol not really but if youre 100 lbs and you give birth to the average 7 or 8 lb baby and 20 lbs of fluid that goes with it. where can ya hide it? thats adding a third to you. i see those articles in the paper
where people give birth out of their blue and all wide eyed and wondery say i didnt know and every one around them says i didnt know and all i can think is how the hell couldnt you know? i have seen very heavy women have pregnancies that didnt particularly show but that was because they were very heavy to begin with but ive never seen a mom on a 3rd or 4th kid go for more than a few months without showing.

-- Edited by My Turn at 04:27, 2009-02-19

 






 



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Psych Lit wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:



BLUE STATEment: This puzzles me. I mean, really, I can only think of two reasons why a woman in her position would do this (as opposed to like a teenager, or something) 1.) she had reason to be afraid of miscarriage, and didn't want the family to share the disappointment, or 2.) she was keeping the option of abortion open. Is that reasonable of me? Inasmuch as she annointed herself the voice of right to life this last campaign, the second option (which is PURELY speculation, on my part, of course) would seem a particularly damning thing for the campaign, should it have turned out to be the cause.

Why would this mother hide her pregnancy from her own family? I don't get it.

I think that you may be correct in that she may have been keeping her options open. it was only the kids that she kept in the dark wasnt it?   whats more mind boggling for me is that she COULD keep this a secret. She had quite a few previous pregnancies and shes not a large woman. i would have thought shed "show" fairly quickly.
She was also an "older" mother and tho she might not have requested an amnio she may have, as a part of regular pre natal care, had a test like the Alpha Fetoprotein test that may have shown a problem or she may have had the old lets look at the baby growing inside ultrasound.  babies with downs syndrome have particular defects that are often visible on the screen.  either of those options may have led her doctor to ask for a sampling or an amnio. the CVS sampling can be done early on but the amnio is done like a month later but both take time to get the results. id think that she was probably in the late 5th or 6th month before she was sure what was going on and that would put her in the late term abortion category were she to go thru with it. so she may have known in the 3rd month that something was not right, she may have been at the end of the 6th month before she knew what it was and she may have wanted some time to adjust to the situation or to share it with her husband before dealing with it publically.








its really hard to say why she "hid" the pregnancy.....my first thought was that she didnt want it to influence peoples perception of her ability to do her job if she was campainging for office at that time....until i re-read the part that said she kept it from her family.....

also, for someone with access to healthy care, and i am sure in her situation, she has excellant resources and is financially able to avail herself of them....i really doubt it was in her sixth month before she knew that baby had downs.  while she may not have opted for CVS, due to the higher risk potential....one test, the nuchal fold test test is done via ultrasound between 11 and 13 weeks gestation.  the AFP as you refer to it...and is now called the triple screen or most docs now perform the quad screen blood test, is done after 15 weeks and is basically not worth the time or money for those over the age of 30, due to the high rate of false positives/negatives, or in the case of one carrying twins.  the amino is the only test that will be proof positive for chromosomal anomalies, and this test can be performed as early as 15 weeks, with most docs preferring to do the test at 17 weeks.  the full results, nowadays, are received in 10 days or less, with the FISH results coming in 3-5 days.  so she really would have been less than or right at the five month mark (20 weeks or less) into the 40 week pregnancy.  even if she choose to do nothing before the level 2 u/s, which is when they are able to screen the heart and long bones for the markers for downs and the spinal cord for open cord defects, this is done at 20 weeks and she still could have had the anmio and the results prior to 23 weeks.  for many people it is quite easy to hide or not have others notice a pregnancy prior to 24-26 weeks, even smaller people.  for myself, i am quite tiny, only 100 lbs or less and 5'2", and even after my own 7 pregnancies (both mine and my surrogate babies) many...most people dont notice until after 25 weeks or so.....so it is definitely not out of the realm of possiblity that people didnt notice....especially if she was actively trying to hide it with carefully selected clothing. 


-- Edited by My Turn at 04:27, 2009-02-19

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

 


BLUE STATEment: This puzzles me. I mean, really, I can only think of two reasons why a woman in her position would do this (as opposed to like a teenager, or something) 1.) she had reason to be afraid of miscarriage, and didn't want the family to share the disappointment, or 2.) she was keeping the option of abortion open. Is that reasonable of me? Inasmuch as she annointed herself the voice of right to life this last campaign, the second option (which is PURELY speculation, on my part, of course) would seem a particularly damning thing for the campaign, should it have turned out to be the cause.

Why would this mother hide her pregnancy from her own family? I don't get it.

I think that you may be correct in that she may have been keeping her options open. it was only the kids that she kept in the dark wasnt it?   whats more mind boggling for me is that she COULD keep this a secret. She had quite a few previous pregnancies and shes not a large woman. i would have thought shed "show" fairly quickly.
She was also an "older" mother and tho she might not have requested an amnio she may have, as a part of regular pre natal care, had a test like the Alpha Fetoprotein test that may have shown a problem or she may have had the old lets look at the baby growing inside ultrasound.  babies with downs syndrome have particular defects that are often visible on the screen.  either of those options may have led her doctor to ask for a sampling or an amnio. the CVS sampling can be done early on but the amnio is done like a month later but both take time to get the results. id think that she was probably in the late 5th or 6th month before she was sure what was going on and that would put her in the late term abortion category were she to go thru with it. so she may have known in the 3rd month that something was not right, she may have been at the end of the 6th month before she knew what it was and she may have wanted some time to adjust to the situation or to share it with her husband before dealing with it publically.

 




 



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Ever seen her left hook? I have. lmao. 

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Top 5 Reasons it Sucks to Be Sarah Palin

1418776_64.jpgBy David Knowles
Feb 18th 2009 9:17AM

83871149.jpg
Over the past week, a fresh new trove of Sarah Palin stories has been offered up to the American people, making plain, once again, that meteoric fame often comes with a hefty pricetag. In the five months since she was plucked from relative obscurity to become John McCain's running mate, Palin has resided on the very sharp blade of a double-edged sword. With her pit bull campaign role, delivering the harshest lines of attack against Barack Obama, Palin quickly became a woman that you loved, or loved to hate. Well, that hasn't changed. But a few recent developments, as magnified by the ever-present media magnifying glass, are making Palin's glass feel a little more half-empty.

1. Back taxes. From the Anchorage Daily News, comes word that Sarah Palin must pay back income taxes on upwards of $17,000 in per diem expenses (meals, lodging, etc.) that she charged to the state of Alaska while living in her own Wasilla home. No exact word on how much the Governor will have to fork over. On the bright side, the ADN article goes on to say that it seems like nobody in Alaska politics, Democrats included, really pays their taxes properly (following a national trend).

2. New enemies. The Washington Post details Palin's awkward reunion with state legislators:

A number of factors seem to have contributed to the bumpy homecoming: a residual anger among Democrats for the attack-dog role Palin assumed in the McCain campaign, lingering resentment from Republicans for the part she may have played in McCain's defeat and a suspicion crossing party lines that the concerns of Alaska, at a time of economic crisis, will now be secondary to her future in national politics.


3. Lack of privacy. Just as Hollywood movie stars, while giving interviews, often complain that they have no privacy, so too must the Palin family grapple with the simultaneous lure and repulsion of flashing cameras. This week, Bristol Palin decided she wanted to relay lots of personal details to Greta van Susteren about the birth of her son, and her feelings on how sexual abstinence is not "realistic" for teenagers. And the governor herself, interviewed by People magazine and in a new biography disclosed that she'd hid the news that she was pregnant with her son Trig from her own family until the final weeks before his birth. (Tommy has more).

4. Stimulus. She hates the stimulus bill, and will build new roads to prove it. Before President Obama signed the stimulus bill into law, Palin declared that he should veto it. Why? It contained too much wasteful spending. Well, that seems like an odd criticism given that Palin is now proposing to build a road to Nome that will cost an estimated $4 million per mile.

5. Ashley Judd and Planned Parenthood. Governor Palin is a potent symbol, and, like Hillary Clinton before her, she has become a sure fire way to raise money and attention for groups or individuals who staunchly disagree with her views. Consider the attention she has brought to the practice of aerial hunting, and the cash she continues to raise for Planned Parenthood.

(end of article)
------------

RED STATEment: I saw this coming a long time ago -- during the campaigns. Was pretty clear that what she was doing was on shakey ground, and would be soon halted.

BLUE STATEment: This puzzles me. I mean, really, I can only think of two reasons why a woman in her position would do this (as opposed to like a teenager, or something) 1.) she had reason to be afraid of miscarriage, and didn't want the family to share the disappointment, or 2.) she was keeping the option of abortion open. Is that reasonable of me? Inasmuch as she annointed herself the voice of right to life this last campaign, the second option (which is PURELY speculation, on my part, of course) would seem a particularly damning thing for the campaign, should it have turned out to be the cause.

Why would this mother hide her pregnancy from her own family? I don't get it.


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 09:50, 2009-02-18

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Palin Takes Aim at Fey, Couric, Kennedy
By Alexander Mooney
CNN

(Jan. 8) - Sarah Palin is credited with making Tina Fey a world-wide star and boosting Katie Couric's ratings at CBS.

But in a recent interview with conservative John Ziegler, Palin said both "exploited" her twelve-week candidacy -- a fact, she said, that "says a great deal about our society".

Like WHAT? And since when do YOU not jump every chance you get, onto the exploitation wagon?



Fey's widely-applauded portrayal of the Alaska governor boosted SNL's ratings, while Couric's audience grew after a series of interviews during which Palin now-famously faltered.

"I did see that Tina Fey was named entertainer of the year and Katie Couric's ratings have risen," Palin said in the interview. "I know that a lot of people are capitalizing on, oh I don'tknow, perhaps some exploiting that was done via me, my family, my administration --that's a little bit perplexing, but it also says a great deal about our society."

The Alaska governor was particularly upset with an SNL skit during which Fey's version of Palin said, "I believe marriage is meant to be a sacred institution between two unwilling teenagers."

The line was a clear reference to Palin's 18-year-old daughter Bristol and her fiancé Levi Johnston. The two announced shortly before the GOP convention that they were expecting a baby and had plans to marry.

"The mama grizzly rises up in me, hearing things like that," she said of a skit. "Here again, cool, fine come attack me.  Why? You're whining enough as it is. But when you make a suggestion like that that attacks a kid, it kills me."

That was "attacking a kid??" Man o man does this ring a few familiar bells...

In the wide-ranging interview, Palin also faulted the McCain campaign for agreeing to a series of sit-downs with Couric after the first one appeared to go so poorly.

"I knew it didn't go well the first day, and then we gave her a couple of other segments after that," she said. "And my question to the campaign was, after it didn't go well the first day, why were we going to go back for moregoing back for more was not a wise decision either."

No. You should have just stayed in hiding until November 5th.

During one of those follow-up interviews, Palin took heat for appearing to be unable to name the newspapers or magazines she reads: "Um of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years," was the Alaska governor's response.

In the interview with Ziegler, Palin called that answer "too flippant" and suggested the question itself offended her.

"To me the question was more along the lines of, 'Do you read, what do you guys do up there, what is it that you read?"
"...Katie, you're not the center of everybody's universe," Palin added off-handedly.

Palin, who has long criticized media coverage of her campaign performance, also said she is interested to see if reporters are equally tough on Caroline Kennedy as she pursues the appointment to the likely-vacant Senate seat in New York.

"I've been interested to see how Caroline Kennedy will be handled, and if she will be handled with kid gloves or if she will be under such a microscope," she said.

"It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out and I think that as we watch that we will perhaps be able to prove that there is a class issue here, Cripes! We've just had eight years of GEORGE W. BUSH, one of the most classless people on the PLANET! also that was such a factor in the scrutiny of my candidacy versus, say, the scrutiny of what her candidacy may be," she also said.


------------------------

Governor Palin?
I've known of Caroline Kennedy since she was a toddler.

I've watched Caroline Kennedy grow up.

I watched Caroline Kennedy pass the bar exam in both New York, and Washington D. C.

Governor Palin, you're no Caroline Kennedy.

You know what irks me about this? The sexism. Not the one Palin talks about, but the one she promotes. Every candidate was the butt of jokes, constantly during the campaigns. Every single one. Sarah should be immune from that, because she's a woman? Excuse the seemingly sexist cliche -- I don't mean it that way -- but when it comes to running for the second highest office in the land? If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. That "microscope" is on ALL people who apply for the same giv you did. Don't take my word for it ... ask Barack Hussein Obama -- ask him for his freakin' BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Ask Hillary Clinton about how SNL lampooned her for her laugh, and NUMEROUS other things. You should get a pass? And EXCUSE ME, but it's Katie Couric's fault she looked like a ninny during those conversations? Really? If the hard questions are "What do you read?" How are you going to handle things slightly more demanding?

Oh, and hey, HERE'S a thought -- if you don't want your kids exploited? How about YOU don't start the ball ROLLING next time!

Sarah? YOU'RE not the center of everyone's universe, EITHER.
snippy b-word... What is this, National Whiners week? rage.gif


I guess, technically, I contributed more to the Tina campaign simply by paying the $4.50 for her Vanity Fair issue.






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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Palin Takes Aim at Fey, Couric, Kennedy
By Alexander Mooney
CNN

(Jan. 8) - Sarah Palin is credited with making Tina Fey a world-wide star and boosting Katie Couric's ratings at CBS.

But in a recent interview with conservative John Ziegler, Palin said both "exploited" her twelve-week candidacy -- a fact, she said, that "says a great deal about our society".

Like WHAT? And since when do YOU not jump every chance you get, onto the exploitation wagon?



Fey's widely-applauded portrayal of the Alaska governor boosted SNL's ratings, while Couric's audience grew after a series of interviews during which Palin now-famously faltered.

"I did see that Tina Fey was named entertainer of the year and Katie Couric's ratings have risen," Palin said in the interview. "I know that a lot of people are capitalizing on, oh I don'tknow, perhaps some exploiting that was done via me, my family, my administration --that's a little bit perplexing, but it also says a great deal about our society."

The Alaska governor was particularly upset with an SNL skit during which Fey's version of Palin said, "I believe marriage is meant to be a sacred institution between two unwilling teenagers."

The line was a clear reference to Palin's 18-year-old daughter Bristol and her fiancé Levi Johnston. The two announced shortly before the GOP convention that they were expecting a baby and had plans to marry.

"The mama grizzly rises up in me, hearing things like that," she said of a skit. "Here again, cool, fine come attack me.  Why? You're whining enough as it is. But when you make a suggestion like that that attacks a kid, it kills me."

That was "attacking a kid??" Man o man does this ring a few familiar bells...

In the wide-ranging interview, Palin also faulted the McCain campaign for agreeing to a series of sit-downs with Couric after the first one appeared to go so poorly.

"I knew it didn't go well the first day, and then we gave her a couple of other segments after that," she said. "And my question to the campaign was, after it didn't go well the first day, why were we going to go back for moregoing back for more was not a wise decision either."

No. You should have just stayed in hiding until November 5th.

During one of those follow-up interviews, Palin took heat for appearing to be unable to name the newspapers or magazines she reads: "Um of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years," was the Alaska governor's response.

In the interview with Ziegler, Palin called that answer "too flippant" and suggested the question itself offended her.

"To me the question was more along the lines of, 'Do you read, what do you guys do up there, what is it that you read?"
"...Katie, you're not the center of everybody's universe," Palin added off-handedly.

Palin, who has long criticized media coverage of her campaign performance, also said she is interested to see if reporters are equally tough on Caroline Kennedy as she pursues the appointment to the likely-vacant Senate seat in New York.

"I've been interested to see how Caroline Kennedy will be handled, and if she will be handled with kid gloves or if she will be under such a microscope," she said.

"It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out and I think that as we watch that we will perhaps be able to prove that there is a class issue here, Cripes! We've just had eight years of GEORGE W. BUSH, one of the most classless people on the PLANET! also that was such a factor in the scrutiny of my candidacy versus, say, the scrutiny of what her candidacy may be," she also said.


------------------------

Governor Palin?
I've known of Caroline Kennedy since she was a toddler.

I've watched Caroline Kennedy grow up.

I watched Caroline Kennedy pass the bar exam in both New York, and Washington D. C.

Governor Palin, you're no Caroline Kennedy.

You know what irks me about this? The sexism. Not the one Palin talks about, but the one she promotes. Every candidate was the butt of jokes, constantly during the campaigns. Every single one. Sarah should be immune from that, because she's a woman? Excuse the seemingly sexist cliche -- I don't mean it that way -- but when it comes to running for the second highest office in the land? If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. That "microscope" is on ALL people who apply for the same giv you did. Don't take my word for it ... ask Barack Hussein Obama -- ask him for his freakin' BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Ask Hillary Clinton about how SNL lampooned her for her laugh, and NUMEROUS other things. You should get a pass? And EXCUSE ME, but it's Katie Couric's fault she looked like a ninny during those conversations? Really? If the hard questions are "What do you read?" How are you going to handle things slightly more demanding?

Oh, and hey, HERE'S a thought -- if you don't want your kids exploited? How about YOU don't start the ball ROLLING next time!

Sarah? YOU'RE not the center of everyone's universe, EITHER.
snippy b-word... What is this, National Whiners week? rage.gif


I guess, technically, I contributed more to the Tina campaign simply by paying the $4.50 for her Vanity Fair issue.






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Palin Takes Aim at Fey, Couric, Kennedy
By Alexander Mooney
CNN

(Jan. 8) - Sarah Palin is credited with making Tina Fey a world-wide star and boosting Katie Couric's ratings at CBS.

But in a recent interview with conservative John Ziegler, Palin said both "exploited" her twelve-week candidacy -- a fact, she said, that "says a great deal about our society".

Like WHAT? And since when do YOU not jump every chance you get, onto the exploitation wagon?



Fey's widely-applauded portrayal of the Alaska governor boosted SNL's ratings, while Couric's audience grew after a series of interviews during which Palin now-famously faltered.

"I did see that Tina Fey was named entertainer of the year and Katie Couric's ratings have risen," Palin said in the interview. "I know that a lot of people are capitalizing on, oh I don'tknow, perhaps some exploiting that was done via me, my family, my administration --that's a little bit perplexing, but it also says a great deal about our society."

The Alaska governor was particularly upset with an SNL skit during which Fey's version of Palin said, "I believe marriage is meant to be a sacred institution between two unwilling teenagers."

The line was a clear reference to Palin's 18-year-old daughter Bristol and her fiancé Levi Johnston. The two announced shortly before the GOP convention that they were expecting a baby and had plans to marry.

"The mama grizzly rises up in me, hearing things like that," she said of a skit. "Here again, cool, fine come attack me.  Why? You're whining enough as it is. But when you make a suggestion like that that attacks a kid, it kills me."

That was "attacking a kid??" Man o man does this ring a few familiar bells...

In the wide-ranging interview, Palin also faulted the McCain campaign for agreeing to a series of sit-downs with Couric after the first one appeared to go so poorly.

"I knew it didn't go well the first day, and then we gave her a couple of other segments after that," she said. "And my question to the campaign was, after it didn't go well the first day, why were we going to go back for moregoing back for more was not a wise decision either."

No. You should have just stayed in hiding until November 5th.

During one of those follow-up interviews, Palin took heat for appearing to be unable to name the newspapers or magazines she reads: "Um of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years," was the Alaska governor's response.

In the interview with Ziegler, Palin called that answer "too flippant" and suggested the question itself offended her.

"To me the question was more along the lines of, 'Do you read, what do you guys do up there, what is it that you read?"
"...Katie, you're not the center of everybody's universe," Palin added off-handedly.

Palin, who has long criticized media coverage of her campaign performance, also said she is interested to see if reporters are equally tough on Caroline Kennedy as she pursues the appointment to the likely-vacant Senate seat in New York.

"I've been interested to see how Caroline Kennedy will be handled, and if she will be handled with kid gloves or if she will be under such a microscope," she said.

"It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out and I think that as we watch that we will perhaps be able to prove that there is a class issue here, Cripes! We've just had eight years of GEORGE W. BUSH, one of the most classless people on the PLANET! also that was such a factor in the scrutiny of my candidacy versus, say, the scrutiny of what her candidacy may be," she also said.


------------------------

Governor Palin?
I've known of Caroline Kennedy since she was a toddler.

I've watched Caroline Kennedy grow up.

I watched Caroline Kennedy pass the bar exam in both New York, and Washington D. C.

Governor Palin, you're no Caroline Kennedy.

You know what irks me about this? The sexism. Not the one Palin talks about, but the one she promotes. Every candidate was the butt of jokes, constantly during the campaigns. Every single one. Sarah should be immune from that, because she's a woman? Excuse the seemingly sexist cliche -- I don't mean it that way -- but when it comes to running for the second highest office in the land? If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. That "microscope" is on ALL people who apply for the same giv you did. Don't take my word for it ... ask Barack Hussein Obama -- ask him for his freakin' BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Ask Hillary Clinton about how SNL lampooned her for her laugh, and NUMEROUS other things. You should get a pass? And EXCUSE ME, but it's Katie Couric's fault she looked like a ninny during those conversations? Really? If the hard questions are "What do you read?" How are you going to handle things slightly more demanding?

Oh, and hey, HERE'S a thought -- if you don't want your kids exploited? How about YOU don't start the ball ROLLING next time!

Sarah? YOU'RE not the center of everyone's universe, EITHER.
snippy b-word... What is this, National Whiners week? rage.gif


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Psych Lit wrote:

Calif. AG urges court to void gay marriage ban

By LISA LEFF
,
AP

Text SizeAAA
SAN FRANCISCO -The California attorney general has changed his position on the state's new same-sex marriage ban and is now urging the state Supreme Court to void Proposition 8.
In a dramatic reversal, Attorney General Jerry Brown filed a legal brief saying the measure that amended the California Constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman is itself unconstitutional because it deprives a minority group of a fundamental right. Earlier, Brown had said he would defend the ballot measure against legal challenges from gay marriage supporters.
But Brown said he reached a different conclusion "upon further reflection and a deeper probing into all the aspects of our Constitution.
"It became evident that the Article 1 provision guaranteeing basic liberty, which includes the right to marry, took precedence over the initiative," he said in an interview Friday night. "Based on my duty to defend the law and the entire Constitution, I concluded the court should protect the right to marry even in the face of the 52 percent vote."
Brown, who served as governor from 1975 to 1983, is considering seeking the office again in 2010. After California voters passed Proposition 8 on Nov. 4, Brown said he personally voted against it but would fight to uphold it as the state's top lawyer.
He submitted his brief in one of the three legal challenges to Proposition 8 brought by same-sex marriage supporters. The measure, a constitutional amendment that passed with 52 percent of the vote, overruled the state Supreme Court decision last spring that briefly legalized gay marriage in the nation's most populous state.
Shannon Minter, legal director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, called the attorney general's change of strategy "a major development."
"The fact that after looking at this he shifted his position and is really bucking convention by not defending Prop. 8 signals very clearly that this proposition can not be defended," Minter said.
The sponsors of Proposition 8 argued for the first time Friday that the court should undo the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters banned gay marriage at the ballot box last month.
The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief telling the court that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions.
"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Kenneth Starr, dean of Pepperdine University's law school and a former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton.
Both Brown and gay rights groups maintain that the gay marriage ban may not be applied retroactively.
Starr's co-counsel Andrew Pugno said Brown's decision to challenge the voter-approved measure and the argument advanced by the attorney general was "totally unprecedented."
"His legal duty as attorney general of the state is to defend initiatives passed by the voters," he said.
The state Supreme Court could hear arguments in the litigation in March. The measure's backers announced Friday that Starr had signed on as their lead counsel and would argue the cases.


Sure, now that they dragged CA Prop 8 into their constitution attached to the OBAMA vote and thanks largely to Christian blacks, why not reverse your pov and campaign to nullify, void or overturn it? He should have been knowledgeable and done his research in this regard PRIOR to the general election! His duty as AG is not simply to uphold the will of the people as stated in this article, it's to follow the the laws ON THE BOOKS. If he would prefer to legislate, perhaps he should consider running for a house or senate seat, there's one in NY and NY does NOT require residence until AFTER election OR an appointment. In the words of Linda Ronstadt, You're No Good Your'e No Good Baby You're No Good...Actually, Oakland realy likes him. Has anyone actually SEEN what's become of Oakland. Nuff said.


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Calif. AG urges court to void gay marriage ban

By LISA LEFF
,
AP

Text SizeAAA
SAN FRANCISCO -The California attorney general has changed his position on the state's new same-sex marriage ban and is now urging the state Supreme Court to void Proposition 8.
In a dramatic reversal, Attorney General Jerry Brown filed a legal brief saying the measure that amended the California Constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman is itself unconstitutional because it deprives a minority group of a fundamental right. Earlier, Brown had said he would defend the ballot measure against legal challenges from gay marriage supporters.
But Brown said he reached a different conclusion "upon further reflection and a deeper probing into all the aspects of our Constitution.
"It became evident that the Article 1 provision guaranteeing basic liberty, which includes the right to marry, took precedence over the initiative," he said in an interview Friday night. "Based on my duty to defend the law and the entire Constitution, I concluded the court should protect the right to marry even in the face of the 52 percent vote."
Brown, who served as governor from 1975 to 1983, is considering seeking the office again in 2010. After California voters passed Proposition 8 on Nov. 4, Brown said he personally voted against it but would fight to uphold it as the state's top lawyer.
He submitted his brief in one of the three legal challenges to Proposition 8 brought by same-sex marriage supporters. The measure, a constitutional amendment that passed with 52 percent of the vote, overruled the state Supreme Court decision last spring that briefly legalized gay marriage in the nation's most populous state.
Shannon Minter, legal director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, called the attorney general's change of strategy "a major development."
"The fact that after looking at this he shifted his position and is really bucking convention by not defending Prop. 8 signals very clearly that this proposition can not be defended," Minter said.
The sponsors of Proposition 8 argued for the first time Friday that the court should undo the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters banned gay marriage at the ballot box last month.
The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief telling the court that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions.
"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Kenneth Starr, dean of Pepperdine University's law school and a former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton.
Both Brown and gay rights groups maintain that the gay marriage ban may not be applied retroactively.
Starr's co-counsel Andrew Pugno said Brown's decision to challenge the voter-approved measure and the argument advanced by the attorney general was "totally unprecedented."
"His legal duty as attorney general of the state is to defend initiatives passed by the voters," he said.
The state Supreme Court could hear arguments in the litigation in March. The measure's backers announced Friday that Starr had signed on as their lead counsel and would argue the cases.


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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

 

BoxDog wrote:

Seriously, I seem to recall an endless stream of designer gowns for Nancy Reagan, I just don't remember the public reaction to them, if any. It was a HUGE designer she used, I just don't recall which. <BD



She used several, as I recall. Thing is, she either borrowed, or bought all those gowns with her own money. Some of the "borrowed" gowns weren't ever returned, but the designers were happy to have the advertising, and are to this day, with other people, like HRC, (one woman designed all of Hillary's pantsuits, and it was an advertising boon for her... but those Hillary didn't buy with her own money, were lent to her -- the DNC didn't pay for them) which is partly why the money spent on Palin is of interest, I think.   ive read about this for the oscars too. theres always someone wearing like 2 billion bucks worth of harry winston diamonds and wonder why they dont have secret service protection. hmmm that might make a good mini mystery for one of the womans mags... but speaking of nancy regan has anyone noticed that mrs tom cruise is morphing into her? you have to wonder what fantasy was going on for her, or more likely for him since she reportedly doesnt do anything without his permission, to keep this look. maybe hes going to be on the scientology ticket in 2012.


And OK, I just have to say it: It does seem to me that really, when you get right down to it, a big part of SP's political collateral was her appearance. Is that sexist of me? I don't think so. I think it's a viable observation. I think the RNC intentionally guided the electorate there, and away from her other (I think dubious) assests as a VP candidate. I truly believe the RNC wanted her to be considered "eye candy" and I think it worked pretty well for her, actually. Imagine how her "qualifications" would have played if she had looked like someone not societally perceived as "pretty" like, say, Janet Reno.

absolutely and it was a nice sexy mifl image they were going for too. she kept using the phrase hockey mom and thats sort of what i was thinking of who they were going for on this. she reminded me of the hot motherof a kid on a sports team, the one that all the dads fluttered and blushed around and really thats what i think they were aiming at. the average family could relate to her, she was made to appear to be just like them but watching her move in her kitchen sort of did away with any of those notions:) id bet that she doesnt do much of the cooking herself. but thats what sort of is galling about the whole thing, its the play on sexuality and then crying sexist when shes called on it. cant have it both ways. well you can but its sort of rovian in its origins i think.

The other apparent "selling point" for SP was "I'm just a Joe six-pack." weirdface.gif Is it not horribly condescending for SP and the GOP to assume that the American people would want "just a Joe six-pack" as Vice President of the United States? Remember the flack over Billy Beer?
-------------------------

I was distracted by Ollie the Shredder, several invasions of tiny countries and a stock market crash. It seems this question is actually born of Sara Palin.

id agree with bd on this. i do think that given some thought the american people would not choose someone like sarah palin as a president but the denied recession, the whole way things were going 28 % approval rate,with this administration left a void and ill bet many people were seeing little in the way of "common sense" thinking that they could do a better job, that would be the average joes. at the beginning of the campaign this populist stance didnt work for john edwards but there was a quick shift there and hillarys finally picking up steam at the end was a shift in the populist direction and palin came in just around that time. and obama was no slouch in the populist dept either what with the down south affect towards the end. quite a difference from the san francisco obama at the beginning of the campaign.

, 2k shoes a nice FLAG PIN and a tube of Neuterlite

blink...this isnt the dog implant thing is it?

I wasn't aware at all, for instance, that SP was even WEARING shoes at the republican convention, although I can't swear that I'd not have noticed if she wasn't. I understand "costumes" as well as most, and perhaps better than many. I understand the subtle nuances of a particular color or cut, and I understand that a costume helps guide an audience a particular way, and encourages them to feel a certain way about them.

exactly and this is the other thing that bothered me about palins wardrobe. the shoes and clothing worn to see the middle eastern representatives. that came off to me like the RNC was passing palin off as a harem girl. and when questioned on that cried sexism.


 Works that way for the person wearing the costume, too, actually. When I played Mrs. Gibbs in "Our Town" I never "became" that character, until I put that apron on. It was the final "slipping into her skin" thing. Flo Ziegfeld used to import fancy underwear for his dancers to wear, which was never seen, but his belief (and who am I to argue?) was that they knew they were wearing them, and that made a difference in their performance

i like this idea.

 atlas

OK, that, you may take issue with, as a snippy comment. :)
-----------------------

yes to the atlas but she also has some disorganized speech thing going on that worries me. its really hard to follow her sentences.  youre left with a general idea of what she says but youre filling it in with your own thoughts rather than hers. maybe thats the effectiveness of it but its kind of odd to listend and think what did she say?




 



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BoxDog wrote:

But ... I was asking about after they're in office, not during a campaign. At that point it is your money, and mine, too, if the taxpayers are picking up the tab for the presentation of the president and vice president.



I'm sorry, I didn't pay close enough attention to your point of "after". Damned coffee. Makes me all hyper and protective of brunettes. <BD

But ... but ... I'm a brunette! no

------------------
I guess after they're in office they can wear a brass dinner plate (GWB) as a belt buckle and (RBC) shoot their friends in the face. ;) Seriously, I seem to recall an endless stream of designer gowns for Nancy Reagan, I just don't remember the public reaction to them, if any. It was a HUGE designer she used, I just don't recall which. <BD

She used several, as I recall. Thing is, she either borrowed, or bought all those gowns with her own money. Some of the "borrowed" gowns weren't ever returned, but the designers were happy to have the advertising, and are to this day, with other people, like HRC, (one woman designed all of Hillary's pantsuits, and it was an advertising boon for her... but those Hillary didn't buy with her own money, were lent to her -- the DNC didn't pay for them) which is partly why the money spent on Palin is of interest, I think. 

Think: Jewels worn on the red carpet for Oscar Night. Same thing, except, of course, for the obligatory: "Who's your gown by?" question, but those interested in that sort of thing already know, or find out. I remember running across a whole blog thingie before the Palin wardrobe thing became an issue, and they were commenting on the heels she wore for her convention speech, saying "Those are _______ heels!" Apparently, those shoes cost several thousand dollars. <shrug> 

And OK, I just have to say it: It does seem to me that really, when you get right down to it, a big part of SP's political collateral was her appearance. Is that sexist of me? I don't think so. I think it's a viable observation. I think the RNC intentionally guided the electorate there, and away from her other (I think dubious) assests as a VP candidate. I truly believe the RNC wanted her to be considered "eye candy" and I think it worked pretty well for her, actually. Imagine how her "qualifications" would have played if she had looked like someone not societally perceived as "pretty" like, say, Janet Reno.   

The other apparent "selling point" for SP was "I'm just a Joe six-pack." weirdface.gif Is it not horribly condescending for SP and the GOP to assume that the American people would want "just a Joe six-pack" as Vice President of the United States? Remember the flack over Billy Beer?
-------------------------

I was distracted by Ollie the Shredder, several invasions of tiny countries and a stock market crash. It seems this question is actually born of Sara Palin. As if all of a sudden intelligent (or not) good looking, engaging, interesting women have magically appeared in politics. The problem, as I see it, is that a mans suit, appears as just that, a mans suit. It could be off the rack for a buck fifty or three thousand dollars. Add some gold and diamond cufflinks, 2k shoes a nice FLAG PIN and a tube of Neuterlite and gd btw doesn't anyone remember how much makeup Tom Delay wore?
 I guarantee you the next admin may be promising hot dogs and hamburgers at their inauguration, but he's not going to sport cheap suits and neither will his wife. <BD
 
Agreed. I think the point of contention is not really the amount of money spent, but who's picking up the tab, when it comes to the president and the vice president. If SP can afford  $500,000 a year for makeup, then by all means, slap it on. Thing is, what happens if she can't? And that RNC money didn't just go for her -- it also went to outfit her entire family. The question then, is if a president or vice president cannot afford to maintain her present look, and it's one of her strongest political assets... what then? (And again, I do recognize how that might be judged sexist of me, and again, I contend that it is merely observational.) 

The way a candidate looks isn't something new to this country -- when the candidates have been men, throughout our history, the taller of the two has almost always been the eventual victor. Dennis K never really had a chance. He's scarcely even listened to, and yet his is one of the most astute minds in and around Washington. It's human nature, and not even learned, really -- babies respond more favorably to "pretty" people than "ugly" ones. 

(I just had a THREAD DRIFT "flash" of mandating, in 2016, that all candidates for president must, at all times, be seated, have computer voice-distortion applied to them, so their gender is unclear, and wear a brown paper bag over their heads while campaigning. America would never stand for that. LOL.)  

I'll confess: I liked the way Bill Clinton "looked" when he first took office (and JFK, too.) There was certainly the "eye-candy" thing happening for me then. Thing is, I don't remember either of their clothes, really, except for the top hat JFK took off during his innaugral speech. Their faces had a "freshness" and "vitality" about them, which was oddly reassuring to me as a citizen gazing at my president, and I suppose really, this is no different than people feeling something special when looking at SP, although there was NEVER anything akin to a "sexual" feeling on my part for either JFK or WJC. When I think about it, one of my favorite pics of WJC is one with Hillary when they were much younger (perhaps while he was governor?) and I think he's wearing an ugly old plaid shirt. :) I'm not a clothes hound. I wasn't aware at all, for instance, that SP was even WEARING shoes at the republican convention, although I can't swear that I'd not have noticed if she wasn't. I understand "costumes" as well as most, and perhaps better than many. I understand the subtle nuances of a particular color or cut, and I understand that a costume helps guide an audience a particular way, and encourages them to feel a certain way about them. Works that way for the person wearing the costume, too, actually. When I played Mrs. Gibbs in "Our Town" I never "became" that character, until I put that apron on. It was the final "slipping into her skin" thing. Flo Ziegfeld used to import fancy underwear for his dancers to wear, which was never seen, but his belief (and who am I to argue?) was that they knew they were wearing them, and that made a difference in their performance. I don't deny that the same could surely hold for political candidates, and I don't wish to take that away from them at all, certainly. 

What happens, though, if we vote for the beauty, and when they step into office, they've transformed into the beast?  

Finally, with all that money spent on makeup and hair stylists, it would have been nice if the RNC had also popped for a Rand McNally Atlas...

OK, that, you may take issue with, as a snippy comment. :)
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BoxDog wrote:

ILLION dollars in campaign contributions obamas camp collected, MOST via anonymous donors in amounts less than 200 dollars, I don't find anything wrong, unethical or illegal about someone in the public eye, on a furious path toward an election hire the best assistants and staff that's afforded them. Frankly, with the enormity of his little donations adding up to nearly a half BILLION bucks, I think her hairdresser and makeup folks deserve thanks for keeping their craft at such a reasonable figure. I had alot of coffee today, so while I'm at it here, I think he should be embarrassed to admit that his "volunteers", were often PAID volunteers. After the election were forced to call authorities to obtain that reimbursement. His camp feigned outrage and eyerolls when the practice of employing "paid volunteers" was used by HRC in Texas. To me? It's "too far", when it is illegal. Period. Until that point, just as with my own cash, I will spend it as I see fit. I think back to other candidates, officials, presidents et al and remind myself that there is illegal, unethical, immoral and just plain old in poor taste. So....nope, to me, she deserved every penny that was spent on her whirlwind tour. The rules allow it and that's that. But, my god, she would have made a good looking addition to the White House. Is that Alaska dangling from her double pierced right earlobe? ;)



But ... I was asking about after they're in office, not during a campaign. At that point it is your money, and mine, too, if the taxpayers are picking up the tab for the presentation of the president and vice president.



I'm sorry, I didn't pay close enough attention to your point of "after". Damned coffee. Makes me all hyper and protective of brunettes. I guess after they're in office they can wear a brass dinner plate (GWB) as a belt buckle and (RBC) shoot their friends in the face. ;) Seriously, I seem to recall an endless stream of designer gowns for Nancy Reagan, I just don't remember the public reaction to them, if any. It was a HUGE designer she used, I just don't recall which. I was distracted by Ollie the Shredder, several invasions of tiny countries and a stock market crash. It seems this question is actually born of Sara Palin. As if all of a sudden intelligent (or not) good looking, engaging, interesting women have magically appeared in politics. The problem, as I see it, is that a mans suit, appears as just that, a mans suit. It could be off the rack for a buck fifty or three thousand dollars. Add some gold and diamond cufflinks, 2k shoes a nice FLAG PIN and a tube of Neuterlite and gd btw doesn't anyone remember how much makeup Tom Delay wore? I guarantee you the next admin may be promising hot dogs and hamburgers at their inauguration, but he's not going to sport cheap suits and neither will his wife. We should demand they wear uniforms. Especially if they're going to dare tell CEO's in the private sector whats "too much".

Here ya go, different look. clap.gif Almost, well democratesque. ;)



-- Edited by BoxDog at 19:12, 2008-12-05

 



yeah but those ceos in da private sector are coming for a handout from the public sector so a lil er decorum may be in order there. the thing about palin and the clothes and the hair is that shes (a) overdoing it (b) using money given for other reasons, and (c) its a stark contrast to the values coming out of her mouth. did you see her interview with greta van whosits? i cracked up watching her bake the hotdogs. who bakes their hotdogs and im quite sure the whole hot dog thing was to say hey look at us just regular folks eating hot dogs and beans for dinner while baking (eek) such hotties in the kitchen of her at least 3/4 of a mil home with banks of windows overlooking a pristine alaskan waterway.  she aint poor so she can afford to at least grill the damned hot dogs and or buy her own clothes or at least keep them to a minimum. as far as we know the obamas paid for their own clothes and thats prolly true cause if it wasnt wed have heard about it by now. i know they asked michelle a few times about her clothes and once she said penneys 129 and another time said j crew less than 150 or something so shes not plunking down thousands for something shes gonna wear once and that shows some sense of real life awareness that the 150k spending spree doesnt and palin is a beautiful woman why bury that under 110ks worth of makeup anyway!

 



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

BoxDog wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Hell, I'd look good too!

December 4, 2008, 11:46 pm

McCain Campaign Spent $110,000 on Palin's Stylists

Michael Luo
Sarah PalinGov. Sarah Palin campaigning in York, Pa., on Oct. 31. (Photo: Todd Heisler/The New York Times)

Update | 9:37 a.m. G.O.P. Paid Almost $55,000 for Palin Fashion Stylist

Gov. Sarah Palin's traveling makeup artist was paid $68,400 and her hair stylist received more than $42,000 for roughly two months of work, according to a new campaign finance report filed with the Federal Election Commission.

Ms. Palin's makeup artist, Amy Strozzi --who was nominated for an Emmy award for her cosmetics work on the television show "So You Think You Can Dance?" -- was paid $32,400 by Senator John McCain's presidential campaign between Oct. 16 and Nov. 24, the period covered by the most recent reports filed with the commission.

This amount came on top of the $36,000 she had already been paid in previous reports, dating back to September.

In addition, Ms. Palin's traveling hair stylist, Angela Lew, was paid a total of $42,225, with $23,400 coming during the period covered by the latest reports to the commission, which were due at midnight on Thursday.

Much attention has been paid to the $150,000 the Republican National Committee spent on outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as on makeup services.

Republican officials said this week that additional clothing charges would appear on the Republican National Committee's campaign finance report totaling less than $30,000. But the committee's report, which was due at midnight on Thursday, was not yet available as of late evening. 

(end of NYT article)

So here's my question, I guess: Had McCain been elected, would this have been continued, only paid for by taxpayers instead of a political party? How far are we, as the consumer willing to go with picking up the tab for the physical appearance of those who represent us? How do we decide what's reasonable, and what's excessive, especially, if everything changes when a woman finally does become either president, or vice president one day?

I don't want a president who looks like Ted Kaczynski, or anything,

Unabomber Pics

"Mr. President?" I don't think so...


but how far is far enough, and when does it become too far?



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 14:12, 2008-12-05


In my opinion, how far is far enough, would be a question for campaign finance reform. AS IF...LOL. Considering the 475 MILLION dollars in campaign contributions obamas camp collected, MOST via anonymous donors in amounts less than 200 dollars, I don't find anything wrong, unethical or illegal about someone in the public eye, on a furious path toward an election hire the best assistants and staff that's afforded them. Frankly, with the enormity of his little donations adding up to nearly a half BILLION bucks, I think her hairdresser and makeup folks deserve thanks for keeping their craft at such a reasonable figure. I had alot of coffee today, so while I'm at it here, I think he should be embarrassed to admit that his "volunteers", were often PAID volunteers. After the election were forced to call authorities to obtain that reimbursement. His camp feigned outrage and eyerolls when the practice of employing "paid volunteers" was used by HRC in Texas. To me? It's "too far", when it is illegal. Period. Until that point, just as with my own cash, I will spend it as I see fit. I think back to other candidates, officials, presidents et al and remind myself that there is illegal, unethical, immoral and just plain old in poor taste. So....nope, to me, she deserved every penny that was spent on her whirlwind tour. The rules allow it and that's that. But, my god, she would have made a good looking addition to the White House. Is that Alaska dangling from her double pierced right earlobe?  ;)

 



But ... I was asking about after they're in office, not during a campaign. At that point it is your money, and mine, too, if the taxpayers are picking up the tab for the presentation of the president and vice president.



I'm sorry, I didn't pay close enough attention to your point of "after". Damned coffee. Makes me all hyper and protective of brunettes. I guess after they're in office they can wear a brass dinner plate (GWB) as a belt buckle and (RBC) shoot their friends in the face. ;) Seriously, I seem to recall an endless stream of designer gowns for Nancy Reagan, I just don't remember the public reaction to them, if any. It was a HUGE designer she used, I just don't recall which. I was distracted by Ollie the Shredder, several invasions of tiny countries and a stock market crash. It seems this question is actually born of Sara Palin. As if all of a sudden intelligent (or not) good looking, engaging, interesting women have magically appeared in politics. The problem, as I see it, is that a mans suit, appears as just that, a mans suit. It could be off the rack for a buck fifty or three thousand dollars. Add some gold and diamond cufflinks, 2k shoes a nice FLAG PIN and a tube of Neuterlite and gd btw doesn't anyone remember how much makeup Tom Delay wore?  I guarantee you the next admin may be promising hot dogs and hamburgers at their inauguration, but he's not going to sport cheap suits and neither will his wife. We should demand they wear uniforms. Especially if they're going to dare tell CEO's in the private sector whats "too much".

Here ya go, different look. clap.gif Almost, well democratesque. ;)



-- Edited by BoxDog at 19:12, 2008-12-05

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BoxDog wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Hell, I'd look good too!

December 4, 2008, 11:46 pm

McCain Campaign Spent $110,000 on Palin's Stylists

Michael Luo
Sarah PalinGov. Sarah Palin campaigning in York, Pa., on Oct. 31. (Photo: Todd Heisler/The New York Times)

Update | 9:37 a.m. G.O.P. Paid Almost $55,000 for Palin Fashion Stylist

Gov. Sarah Palin's traveling makeup artist was paid $68,400 and her hair stylist received more than $42,000 for roughly two months of work, according to a new campaign finance report filed with the Federal Election Commission.

Ms. Palin's makeup artist, Amy Strozzi --who was nominated for an Emmy award for her cosmetics work on the television show "So You Think You Can Dance?" -- was paid $32,400 by Senator John McCain's presidential campaign between Oct. 16 and Nov. 24, the period covered by the most recent reports filed with the commission.

This amount came on top of the $36,000 she had already been paid in previous reports, dating back to September.

In addition, Ms. Palin's traveling hair stylist, Angela Lew, was paid a total of $42,225, with $23,400 coming during the period covered by the latest reports to the commission, which were due at midnight on Thursday.

Much attention has been paid to the $150,000 the Republican National Committee spent on outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as on makeup services.

Republican officials said this week that additional clothing charges would appear on the Republican National Committee's campaign finance report totaling less than $30,000. But the committee's report, which was due at midnight on Thursday, was not yet available as of late evening. 

(end of NYT article)

So here's my question, I guess: Had McCain been elected, would this have been continued, only paid for by taxpayers instead of a political party? How far are we, as the consumer willing to go with picking up the tab for the physical appearance of those who represent us? How do we decide what's reasonable, and what's excessive, especially, if everything changes when a woman finally does become either president, or vice president one day?

I don't want a president who looks like Ted Kaczynski, or anything,

Unabomber Pics

"Mr. President?" I don't think so...


but how far is far enough, and when does it become too far?



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 14:12, 2008-12-05


In my opinion, how far is far enough, would be a question for campaign finance reform. AS IF...LOL. Considering the 475 MILLION dollars in campaign contributions obamas camp collected, MOST via anonymous donors in amounts less than 200 dollars, I don't find anything wrong, unethical or illegal about someone in the public eye, on a furious path toward an election hire the best assistants and staff that's afforded them. Frankly, with the enormity of his little donations adding up to nearly a half BILLION bucks, I think her hairdresser and makeup folks deserve thanks for keeping their craft at such a reasonable figure. I had alot of coffee today, so while I'm at it here, I think he should be embarrassed to admit that his "volunteers", were often PAID volunteers. After the election were forced to call authorities to obtain that reimbursement. His camp feigned outrage and eyerolls when the practice of employing "paid volunteers" was used by HRC in Texas. To me? It's "too far", when it is illegal. Period. Until that point, just as with my own cash, I will spend it as I see fit. I think back to other candidates, officials, presidents et al and remind myself that there is illegal, unethical, immoral and just plain old in poor taste. So....nope, to me, she deserved every penny that was spent on her whirlwind tour. The rules allow it and that's that. But, my god, she would have made a good looking addition to the White House. Is that Alaska dangling from her double pierced right earlobe?  ;)

 



But ... I was asking about after they're in office, not during a campaign. At that point it is your money, and mine, too, if the taxpayers are picking up the tab for the presentation of the president and vice president.



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Hell, I'd look good too!

December 4, 2008, 11:46 pm

McCain Campaign Spent $110,000 on Palin's Stylists

Michael Luo
Sarah PalinGov. Sarah Palin campaigning in York, Pa., on Oct. 31. (Photo: Todd Heisler/The New York Times)

Update | 9:37 a.m. G.O.P. Paid Almost $55,000 for Palin Fashion Stylist

Gov. Sarah Palin's traveling makeup artist was paid $68,400 and her hair stylist received more than $42,000 for roughly two months of work, according to a new campaign finance report filed with the Federal Election Commission.

Ms. Palin's makeup artist, Amy Strozzi --who was nominated for an Emmy award for her cosmetics work on the television show "So You Think You Can Dance?" -- was paid $32,400 by Senator John McCain's presidential campaign between Oct. 16 and Nov. 24, the period covered by the most recent reports filed with the commission.

This amount came on top of the $36,000 she had already been paid in previous reports, dating back to September.

In addition, Ms. Palin's traveling hair stylist, Angela Lew, was paid a total of $42,225, with $23,400 coming during the period covered by the latest reports to the commission, which were due at midnight on Thursday.

Much attention has been paid to the $150,000 the Republican National Committee spent on outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as on makeup services.

Republican officials said this week that additional clothing charges would appear on the Republican National Committee's campaign finance report totaling less than $30,000. But the committee's report, which was due at midnight on Thursday, was not yet available as of late evening. 

(end of NYT article)

So here's my question, I guess: Had McCain been elected, would this have been continued, only paid for by taxpayers instead of a political party? How far are we, as the consumer willing to go with picking up the tab for the physical appearance of those who represent us? How do we decide what's reasonable, and what's excessive, especially, if everything changes when a woman finally does become either president, or vice president one day?

I don't want a president who looks like Ted Kaczynski, or anything,

Unabomber Pics

"Mr. President?" I don't think so...


but how far is far enough, and when does it become too far?



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 14:12, 2008-12-05


In my opinion, how far is far enough, would be a question for campaign finance reform. AS IF...LOL. Considering the 475 MILLION dollars in campaign contributions obamas camp collected, MOST via anonymous donors in amounts less than 200 dollars, I don't find anything wrong, unethical or illegal about someone in the public eye, on a furious path toward an election hire the best assistants and staff that's afforded them. Frankly, with the enormity of his little donations adding up to nearly a half BILLION bucks, I think her hairdresser and makeup folks deserve thanks for keeping their craft at such a reasonable figure. I had alot of coffee today, so while I'm at it here, I think he should be embarrassed to admit that his "volunteers", were often PAID volunteers. After the election were forced to call authorities to obtain that reimbursement. His camp feigned outrage and eyerolls when the practice of employing "paid volunteers" was used by HRC in Texas. To me? It's "too far", when it is illegal. Period. Until that point, just as with my own cash, I will spend it as I see fit. I think back to other candidates, officials, presidents et al and remind myself that there is illegal, unethical, immoral and just plain old in poor taste. So....nope, to me, she deserved every penny that was spent on her whirlwind tour. The rules allow it and that's that. But, my god, she would have made a good looking addition to the White House. Is that Alaska dangling from her double pierced right earlobe?  ;)

 



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Hell, I'd look good too!

December 4, 2008, 11:46 pm

McCain Campaign Spent $110,000 on Palin's Stylists

Michael Luo
Sarah PalinGov. Sarah Palin campaigning in York, Pa., on Oct. 31. (Photo: Todd Heisler/The New York Times)

Update | 9:37 a.m. G.O.P. Paid Almost $55,000 for Palin Fashion Stylist

Gov. Sarah Palin's traveling makeup artist was paid $68,400 and her hair stylist received more than $42,000 for roughly two months of work, according to a new campaign finance report filed with the Federal Election Commission.

Ms. Palin's makeup artist, Amy Strozzi --who was nominated for an Emmy award for her cosmetics work on the television show "So You Think You Can Dance?" -- was paid $32,400 by Senator John McCain's presidential campaign between Oct. 16 and Nov. 24, the period covered by the most recent reports filed with the commission.

This amount came on top of the $36,000 she had already been paid in previous reports, dating back to September.

In addition, Ms. Palin's traveling hair stylist, Angela Lew, was paid a total of $42,225, with $23,400 coming during the period covered by the latest reports to the commission, which were due at midnight on Thursday.

Much attention has been paid to the $150,000 the Republican National Committee spent on outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as on makeup services.

Republican officials said this week that additional clothing charges would appear on the Republican National Committee's campaign finance report totaling less than $30,000. But the committee's report, which was due at midnight on Thursday, was not yet available as of late evening. 

(end of NYT article)

So here's my question, I guess: Had McCain been elected, would this have been continued, only paid for by taxpayers instead of a political party? How far are we, as the consumer willing to go with picking up the tab for the physical appearance of those who represent us? How do we decide what's reasonable, and what's excessive, especially, if everything changes when a woman finally does become either president, or vice president one day?

I don't want a president who looks like Ted Kaczynski, or anything,


Unabomber Pics

"Mr. President?" I don't think so...


but how far is far enough, and when does it become too far?



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 14:12, 2008-12-05

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PALIN PERSPECTIVE:

Yesterday, there were about 600,000 more votes cast in my county
than there are total residents in the state of Alaska.

                weirdface

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Psych Lit wrote:



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 13:11, 2008-10-25

Why is it that John Glenn remains an American hero, astronaut and beloved Democratic presence in history and John McCain, fully vindicated, can't shake this silly old monkey no matter how hard he tries, or doesn't? Aside from the fact that four of the "five" were democrats, I just don't see why it won't go away. Neil Bush did. So did Mark Foley, never heard from Macacca man again. Even Biden is learning to shut up. Some things need to go away in order to move forward. I guess I really don't get this one, at all. God Bless John Glenn though, American hero, astronaut, great man! pfft. Just another one of the Keating Five. If that's the way we want to remember it.

personally i think any of these negative aspects of campaigning are smoke and mirrors and have no place in either campaign. why is the bill ayers thing an issue?  why is rev wright an issue and not sarah palins witch hunting pastor who chased women from their homes? i wasnt an obama fan to be sure. i considered voting for mccain and if he had stayed true to himself and given some real answers he may have swayed my vote but instead hes all over the map flaying and spewing negativity. imo thats another example of poor jugement on his part. people dont want to hear this they want to know that someone is in charge. wheres al haig when ya need him?   i want to hear some real solutions to some real problems we are facing and thus far on either side im hearing pipe dreams that wont fly in jan no matter which candidate ends up in office.  we are essentially making a leap of faith.


McCain's campaign is showing all the signs of a losing endeavor unraveling. SP is a diva who is turning on her own? Hello, didn't we already hear that about her when she became governor? Did anyone in McCain's camp think she was going to be someone other than herself just because she'd been given the VP nod?

Dang: John (maverick) McCain is on Meet The Press and me, without a single beer in the house. Ah well, he only said it once that I heard. His whole appearance I kept thinking: "He's SO focused on being calm."

They showed a clip of Limbaugh saying Colin Powell's endorsement was "All about race -- that's all" several times in a row. I'll grant race could be a factor, but crimeny... are we really so ready to reduce a whole man such as Colin Powell to simply the color of his skin? Really? Had he enorsed a black McCain, would democrats be howling: "It's all about race"? I don't think so. Colin Powell left the Bush administration because of fundamental differences with the way that administration was leading this country. John McCain says, then denies, then says (depending upon to whom he's speaking) he voted with George Bush 92% of the time. Is it not POSSIBLE that Colin Powell simply doesn't agree with McBush politics?? And is it not, in its self somewhat racist to reduce him to simply a black man voting for another black man?



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-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 13:11, 2008-10-25

Why is it that John Glenn remains an American hero, astronaut and beloved Democratic presence in history and John McCain, fully vindicated, can't shake this silly old monkey no matter how hard he tries, or doesn't? Aside from the fact that four of the "five" were democrats, I just don't see why it won't go away. Neil Bush did. So did Mark Foley, never heard from Macacca man again. Even Biden is learning to shut up. Some things need to go away in order to move forward. I guess I really don't get this one, at all. God Bless John Glenn though, American hero, astronaut, great man! pfft. Just another one of the Keating Five. If that's the way we want to remember it.

personally i think any of these negative aspects of campaigning are smoke and mirrors and have no place in either campaign. why is the bill ayers thing an issue?  why is rev wright an issue and not sarah palins witch hunting pastor who chased women from their homes? i wasnt an obama fan to be sure. i considered voting for mccain and if he had stayed true to himself and given some real answers he may have swayed my vote but instead hes all over the map flaying and spewing negativity. imo thats another example of poor jugement on his part. people dont want to hear this they want to know that someone is in charge. wheres al haig when ya need him?   i want to hear some real solutions to some real problems we are facing and thus far on either side im hearing pipe dreams that wont fly in jan no matter which candidate ends up in office.  we are essentially making a leap of faith.


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BoxDog wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Psych Lit wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

'Joe the Plumber' Mulls Run for Congress
CNN


Could Joe the Plumber become Joe the congressman?
Joe Wurzelbacher, the most famous plumber in America thanks to John McCain and Sarah Palin, told conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham Friday he's considering a run for Congress in 2010

--------------------------------------------
What a frickin' sham. Mr. "Oh, I hate all this attention, and my Daddy's Daddy was in so deep with John McCain he almost single-handedly ended his political career when the lot of them were finally caught" Plumber Joe.

Maybe her should "consider" first paying that $700 he still owes in traffic fines back in AZ -- two years oughta give him enough time to borrow the funds to clean that off his record.

I'm tellin' ya, the guy was a ringer from the get-go. bleh



im inclined to agree from a circumstantial pov tho my non cynical side is nudging me to acknowledge that into each life some trajectory changing moments happen. one of his may have been the tossing football with his kid in front of his house moment aligning in starcrossed wonder with obamas trek down his street and all of the resulting 15 min of fame that came from that collision along with some pushing from all of those conservative media folks who know how to milk the 15 min into at least an hour... it could happen tho it prolly didnt:)



:) That's your NON cynical side ... and a part of you I very much admire, and from which I benefit often.

Here's another serendipitous item of note:

22 October 2008

Keating law firm donates $50,000 to McCain campaign

Blog_hstrange_2Those voting for the first time this year may not have even been alive during the Keating Five scandal, the political corruption case that threatened Charles_keating to end John McCain's political career back in 1989. Much to the chagrin of those Democrats gesticulating wildly at the very silent elephant in the room, the Obama campaign has largely refrained from touching upon the issue, perhaps preferring to leave past associations well alone, for understandable reasons.

But sometimes history throws little reminders into our present path, and this is one of those times. Campaign finance records have revealed that the law firm founded by Charles Keating - before he went to jail for fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy for his activities as chairman of Lincoln Savings and Loans - has made donations totalling over $50,000 to McCain's campaign.

The Center for Responsive Politics has done the maths, and says: "In amounts ranging from $200 to $2,300, about 30 partners and employees of the legal firm Keating, Muething and Klekamp, as well as their family members, have contributed $50,200 to McCain's 2008 campaign. All but two of the contributions came in July, and all but three of those July donations were logged on July 31, suggesting they were delivered at the same time. As with any bundle of campaign contributions, it's difficult to determine which donor was the "bundler," the person who solicited the contributions on the campaign's behalf. McCain's online roster of bundlers, which purports to name any individual bundling $50,000 or more for the campaign, does not associate any of McCain's major fundraisers with the Keating firm."

This is not improper in itself, and the only Keating included in the bundle is William J. Keating, Jr., Charles Keating's nephew, who is listed as a partner in the firm and contributed $1,000.

But it reminds us of McCain's role in "The Keating Five," a group of senators who received a total of $1.4 million in campaign contributions connected to Keating and personally intervened with government regulators to allow Lincoln Savings and Loans to make highly risky investments that defrauded thousands of investors and cost taxpayers $3.4 billion.

Keating, now 84, once wrote to McCain that "I'm yours till death do us part". Could he be keeping his promise?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If what I've read is true, Joe the Plumber's dad is Richard Wurzelbacher, who was senior VP of Lincoln Savings and Loan at the time of the scandal, and also indicted along with Keating.



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 13:11, 2008-10-25

Why is it that John Glenn remains an American hero, astronaut and beloved Democratic presence in history and John McCain, fully vindicated, can't shake this silly old monkey no matter how hard he tries, or doesn't? Aside from the fact that four of the "five" were democrats, I just don't see why it won't go away. Neil Bush did. So did Mark Foley, never heard from Macacca man again. Even Biden is learning to shut up. Some things need to go away in order to move forward. I guess I really don't get this one, at all. God Bless John Glenn though, American hero, astronaut, great man! pfft. Just another one of the Keating Five. If that's the way we want to remember it.  

It's an issue of discussion now, because John McCain brought up, and made a big deal out of "Joe the Plumber" in the last debate, and has used "Joe the Plumber" in TV ads, as well. Don't ask me, ask John McCain. He's the one who created interest in this guy, not Barack Obama or me.  


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 15:25, 2008-10-25

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Psych Lit wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

'Joe the Plumber' Mulls Run for Congress
CNN


Could Joe the Plumber become Joe the congressman?
Joe Wurzelbacher, the most famous plumber in America thanks to John McCain and Sarah Palin, told conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham Friday he's considering a run for Congress in 2010

--------------------------------------------
What a frickin' sham. Mr. "Oh, I hate all this attention, and my Daddy's Daddy was in so deep with John McCain he almost single-handedly ended his political career when the lot of them were finally caught" Plumber Joe.

Maybe her should "consider" first paying that $700 he still owes in traffic fines back in AZ -- two years oughta give him enough time to borrow the funds to clean that off his record.

I'm tellin' ya, the guy was a ringer from the get-go. bleh



im inclined to agree from a circumstantial pov tho my non cynical side is nudging me to acknowledge that into each life some trajectory changing moments happen. one of his may have been the tossing football with his kid in front of his house moment aligning in starcrossed wonder with obamas trek down his street and all of the resulting 15 min of fame that came from that collision along with some pushing from all of those conservative media folks who know how to milk the 15 min into at least an hour... it could happen tho it prolly didnt:)



:) That's your NON cynical side ... and a part of you I very much admire, and from which I benefit often.

Here's another serendipitous item of note:

22 October 2008

Keating law firm donates $50,000 to McCain campaign

Blog_hstrange_2Those voting for the first time this year may not have even been alive during the Keating Five scandal, the political corruption case that threatened Charles_keating to end John McCain's political career back in 1989. Much to the chagrin of those Democrats gesticulating wildly at the very silent elephant in the room, the Obama campaign has largely refrained from touching upon the issue, perhaps preferring to leave past associations well alone, for understandable reasons.

But sometimes history throws little reminders into our present path, and this is one of those times. Campaign finance records have revealed that the law firm founded by Charles Keating - before he went to jail for fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy for his activities as chairman of Lincoln Savings and Loans - has made donations totalling over $50,000 to McCain's campaign.

The Center for Responsive Politics has done the maths, and says: "In amounts ranging from $200 to $2,300, about 30 partners and employees of the legal firm Keating, Muething and Klekamp, as well as their family members, have contributed $50,200 to McCain's 2008 campaign. All but two of the contributions came in July, and all but three of those July donations were logged on July 31, suggesting they were delivered at the same time. As with any bundle of campaign contributions, it's difficult to determine which donor was the "bundler," the person who solicited the contributions on the campaign's behalf. McCain's online roster of bundlers, which purports to name any individual bundling $50,000 or more for the campaign, does not associate any of McCain's major fundraisers with the Keating firm."

This is not improper in itself, and the only Keating included in the bundle is William J. Keating, Jr., Charles Keating's nephew, who is listed as a partner in the firm and contributed $1,000.

But it reminds us of McCain's role in "The Keating Five," a group of senators who received a total of $1.4 million in campaign contributions connected to Keating and personally intervened with government regulators to allow Lincoln Savings and Loans to make highly risky investments that defrauded thousands of investors and cost taxpayers $3.4 billion.

Keating, now 84, once wrote to McCain that "I'm yours till death do us part". Could he be keeping his promise?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If what I've read is true, Joe the Plumber's dad is Richard Wurzelbacher, who was senior VP of Lincoln Savings and Loan at the time of the scandal, and also indicted along with Keating.



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 13:11, 2008-10-25

Why is it that John Glenn remains an American hero, astronaut and beloved Democratic presence in history and John McCain, fully vindicated, can't shake this silly old monkey no matter how hard he tries, or doesn't? Aside from the fact that four of the "five" were democrats, I just don't see why it won't go away. Neil Bush did. So did Mark Foley, never heard from Macacca man again. Even Biden is learning to shut up. Some things need to go away in order to move forward. I guess I really don't get this one, at all. God Bless John Glenn though, American hero, astronaut, great man! pfft. Just another one of the Keating Five. If that's the way we want to remember it.  

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it does stretch the possibility equations a bit doesnt it? what are the odds? 1 in a zillion? one of the things ive noticed is how reluctant the dems are to use the big guns like this against mccain. maybe they figger its overkill at this time and that the mccain camps negative spin is creating more problems for them than solutions? or maybe they dont want their bundles scrutinized too. hard to say. i will say tho that that dude in the pix looks right outta central casting for the bad guy role in a 21st c spy flick. yikes. sometimes art does imitate life.

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Psych Lit wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

'Joe the Plumber' Mulls Run for Congress
CNN


Could Joe the Plumber become Joe the congressman?
Joe Wurzelbacher, the most famous plumber in America thanks to John McCain and Sarah Palin, told conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham Friday he's considering a run for Congress in 2010

--------------------------------------------
What a frickin' sham. Mr. "Oh, I hate all this attention, and my Daddy's Daddy was in so deep with John McCain he almost single-handedly ended his political career when the lot of them were finally caught" Plumber Joe.

Maybe her should "consider" first paying that $700 he still owes in traffic fines back in AZ -- two years oughta give him enough time to borrow the funds to clean that off his record.

I'm tellin' ya, the guy was a ringer from the get-go. bleh



im inclined to agree from a circumstantial pov tho my non cynical side is nudging me to acknowledge that into each life some trajectory changing moments happen. one of his may have been the tossing football with his kid in front of his house moment aligning in starcrossed wonder with obamas trek down his street and all of the resulting 15 min of fame that came from that collision along with some pushing from all of those conservative media folks who know how to milk the 15 min into at least an hour... it could happen tho it prolly didnt:)



:) That's your NON cynical side ... and a part of you I very much admire, and from which I benefit often.

Here's another serendipitous item of note:

22 October 2008

Keating law firm donates $50,000 to McCain campaign

Blog_hstrange_2Those voting for the first time this year may not have even been alive during the Keating Five scandal, the political corruption case that threatened Charles_keating to end John McCain's political career back in 1989. Much to the chagrin of those Democrats gesticulating wildly at the very silent elephant in the room, the Obama campaign has largely refrained from touching upon the issue, perhaps preferring to leave past associations well alone, for understandable reasons.

But sometimes history throws little reminders into our present path, and this is one of those times. Campaign finance records have revealed that the law firm founded by Charles Keating - before he went to jail for fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy for his activities as chairman of Lincoln Savings and Loans - has made donations totalling over $50,000 to McCain's campaign.

The Center for Responsive Politics has done the maths, and says: "In amounts ranging from $200 to $2,300, about 30 partners and employees of the legal firm Keating, Muething and Klekamp, as well as their family members, have contributed $50,200 to McCain's 2008 campaign. All but two of the contributions came in July, and all but three of those July donations were logged on July 31, suggesting they were delivered at the same time. As with any bundle of campaign contributions, it's difficult to determine which donor was the "bundler," the person who solicited the contributions on the campaign's behalf. McCain's online roster of bundlers, which purports to name any individual bundling $50,000 or more for the campaign, does not associate any of McCain's major fundraisers with the Keating firm."

This is not improper in itself, and the only Keating included in the bundle is William J. Keating, Jr., Charles Keating's nephew, who is listed as a partner in the firm and contributed $1,000.

But it reminds us of McCain's role in "The Keating Five," a group of senators who received a total of $1.4 million in campaign contributions connected to Keating and personally intervened with government regulators to allow Lincoln Savings and Loans to make highly risky investments that defrauded thousands of investors and cost taxpayers $3.4 billion.

Keating, now 84, once wrote to McCain that "I'm yours till death do us part". Could he be keeping his promise?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If what I've read is true, Joe the Plumber's dad is Richard Wurzelbacher, who was senior VP of Lincoln Savings and Loan at the time of the scandal, and also indicted along with Keating.



-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 13:11, 2008-10-25

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

'Joe the Plumber' Mulls Run for Congress
CNN


Could Joe the Plumber become Joe the congressman?
Joe Wurzelbacher, the most famous plumber in America thanks to John McCain and Sarah Palin, told conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham Friday he's considering a run for Congress in 2010

--------------------------------------------
What a frickin' sham. Mr. "Oh, I hate all this attention, and my Daddy's Daddy was in so deep with John McCain he almost single-handedly ended his political career when the lot of them were finally caught" Plumber Joe.

Maybe her should "consider" first paying that $700 he still owes in traffic fines back in AZ -- two years oughta give him enough time to borrow the funds to clean that off his record.

I'm tellin' ya, the guy was a ringer from the get-go. bleh



im inclined to agree from a circumstantial pov tho my non cynical side is nudging me to acknowledge that into each life some trajectory changing moments happen. one of his may have been the tossing football with his kid in front of his house moment aligning in starcrossed wonder with obamas trek down his street and all of the resulting 15 min of fame that came from that collision along with some pushing from all of those conservative media folks who know how to milk the 15 min into at least an hour... it could happen tho it prolly didnt:)

 



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'Joe the Plumber' Mulls Run for Congress
CNN


Could Joe the Plumber become Joe the congressman?
Joe Wurzelbacher, the most famous plumber in America thanks to John McCain and Sarah Palin, told conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham Friday he's considering a run for Congress in 2010

--------------------------------------------
What a frickin' sham. Mr. "Oh, I hate all this attention, and my Daddy's Daddy was in so deep with John McCain he almost single-handedly ended his political career when the lot of them were finally caught" Plumber Joe.

Maybe her should "consider" first paying that $700 he still owes in traffic fines back in AZ  -- two years oughta give him enough time to borrow the funds to clean that off his record.

I'm tellin' ya, the guy was a ringer from the get-go. bleh

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Psych Lit wrote:

 i was glad to see that mccain stood up and tried to calm some of the really crazy stuff down at his speeches. i was listening to poll reports today and it seems the more negative he goes the lower he sinks in the polls. that may be the reason for his change of heart, i hope not, my opinion of him sinks daily. palin just scares me. if she can abuse her power as mayor what might she do as president?



or even Vice President?

But, wasn't it McCain that started the whole smear campaign again Obama?  Doesn't it stand to reason that it would get out of control?  Didn't he ever play whisper down the lane, as a kid?

Did you see the lady who stood up calling Obama an Arab and said how scared she was of him?  I was glad to see him step up and correct her, even though he ended up getting booed at his own rally.

These next few weeks will be interesting, as they always are so close to the election.



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

 



"abuse of power" seems to be the new thang for the White House. How about his slogan: "If you liked Bush, you'll love Palin"?

 




 i was glad to see that mccain stood up and tried to calm some of the really crazy stuff down at his speeches. i was listening to poll reports today and it seems the more negative he goes the lower he sinks in the polls. that may be the reason for his change of heart, i hope not, my opinion of him sinks daily. palin just scares me. if she can abuse her power as mayor what might she do as president?



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milo wrote:


the more I read, the more I see, the less i like, the more askeert I become. i am thinking by looking at the numbers i am not alone in my fear of this crazy woman.

lawdy can she get any worse?    I have been reading about her in several NA news papers and been listenin to NPR,,,,,,, until I fill out my ballot, I just am so conflicted, i don't know how I will vote.




"abuse of power" seems to be the new thang for the White House. How about his slogan: "If you liked Bush, you'll love Palin"?



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Back to the origin of this thread. Maybe she should have "stonewalled" it. Funny thing? I wonder if anyone will really care. A couple of weeks ago, before this financial collapse, sure, but now?

Panel Finds Palin Abused Power

By MATT APUZZO (AP)
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (Oct 10) - Sarah Palin unlawfully abused her power as governor by trying to have her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper, the chief investigator of an Alaska legislative panel concluded Friday. The politically charged inquiry imperiled her reputation as a reformer on John McCain's Republican ticket.
Investigator Stephen Branchflower, in a report by a bipartisan panel that investigated the matter, found Palin in violation of a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain.
The inquiry looked into her dismissal of Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan, who said he lost his job because he resisted pressure to fire a state trooper involved in a bitter divorce with the governor's sister. Palin says Monegan was fired as part of a legitimate budget dispute.
The report found that Palin let the family grudge influence her decision-making even if it was not the sole reason Monegan was dismissed. "I feel vindicated," Monegan said. "It sounds like they've validated my belief and opinions. And that tells me I'm not totally out in left field."
Branchflower said Palin violated a statute of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.

"I disagree," said Palin attorney Thomas Van Flein. "In order to violate the ethics law, there has to be some personal gain, usually financial. Mr. Branchflower has failed to identify any financial gain."

The statute says "any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that (public) trust."

Palin and McCain's supporters had hoped the inquiry's finding would be delayed until after the presidential election to spare her any embarrassment and to put aside an enduring distraction as she campaigns as McCain's running mate in an uphill contest against Democrat Barack Obama.

But the panel of lawmakers voted to release the report, although not without dissension. There was no immediate vote on whether to endorse its findings.
"I think there are some problems in this report," said Republican state Sen. Gary Stevens, a member of the panel. "I would encourage people to be very cautious, to look at this with a jaundiced eye."

The nearly 300-page report does not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation.

The investigation revealed that Palin's husband, Todd, has extraordinary access to the governor's office and her closest advisers. He used that access to try to get trooper Mike Wooten fired, the report found.

Branchflower faulted Sarah Palin for taking no action to stop that. He also noted there is evidence the governor herself participated in the effort.
Wooten had been in hot water before Palin became governor over allegations that he illegally shot a moose, drank beer in a patrol car and used a Taser on his stepson.

In proceedings revealed by the report, former Alaska State Trooper Col. Julia Grimes told investigators that Sarah Palin called her in late 2005 to discuss why Wooten hadn't been fired, and Grimes told her the inquiry was confidential by law.

"Her questions were how can a trooper who behaves this way still be working," Grimes said. "I asked her to please trust me, that because I can't tell her details I would ask her to please trust me that I would take the appropriate action if and when I knew what the findings were. ... I couldn't have another conversation with her about it because, again, it's protected by law."
Grimes said Todd Palin also contacted her by telephone in late 2005 to discuss the confidential investigation of Wooten.

Wooten's disciplinary case was settled in September 2006 months before Palin was elected governor and he was allowed to continue working as a trooper.

After Palin's election, her new public safety commissioner, Monegan, said he was summoned to the governor's office to meet Todd Palin, who said Wooten's punishment had been merely a "slap on the wrist." Monegan said he understood the Palins wanted Wooten fired. "I had this kind of ominous feeling that I may not be long for this job if I didn't somehow respond accordingly," Monegan told the investigator.

For months afterward, Todd Palin filed complaints about Wooten, saying he was seen riding a snowmobile after he had filed a worker's compensation claim and was seen dropping off his children at school in his patrol car. Monegan said Wooten's doctor had authorized the snowmobile trip and his supervisor had approved his use of the patrol car. Monegan said Alaska's attorney general later called him to inquire about Wooten, and Monegan told him they shouldn't be discussing the subject.

"This was an issue that apparently wasn't going to go away, that there were certainly frustrations," Monegan said. "To say that (Sarah Palin) was focused on this I think would be accurate."

(end of article)



the more I read, the more I see, the less i like, the more askeert I become. i am thinking by looking at the numbers i am not alone in my fear of this crazy woman.

lawdy can she get any worse?    I have been reading about her in several NA news papers and been listenin to NPR,,,,,,, until I fill out my ballot, I just am so conflicted, i don't know how I will vote.



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Back to the origin of this thread. Maybe she should have "stonewalled" it. Funny thing? I wonder if anyone will really care. A couple of weeks ago, before this financial collapse, sure, but now?

Panel Finds Palin Abused Power

By MATT APUZZO (AP)
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (Oct 10) - Sarah Palin unlawfully abused her power as governor by trying to have her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper, the chief investigator of an Alaska legislative panel concluded Friday. The politically charged inquiry imperiled her reputation as a reformer on John McCain's Republican ticket.
Investigator Stephen Branchflower, in a report by a bipartisan panel that investigated the matter, found Palin in violation of a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain.
The inquiry looked into her dismissal of Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan, who said he lost his job because he resisted pressure to fire a state trooper involved in a bitter divorce with the governor's sister. Palin says Monegan was fired as part of a legitimate budget dispute.
The report found that Palin let the family grudge influence her decision-making even if it was not the sole reason Monegan was dismissed. "I feel vindicated," Monegan said. "It sounds like they've validated my belief and opinions. And that tells me I'm not totally out in left field."
Branchflower said Palin violated a statute of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.

"I disagree," said Palin attorney Thomas Van Flein. "In order to violate the ethics law, there has to be some personal gain, usually financial. Mr. Branchflower has failed to identify any financial gain."

The statute says "any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that (public) trust."

Palin and McCain's supporters had hoped the inquiry's finding would be delayed until after the presidential election to spare her any embarrassment and to put aside an enduring distraction as she campaigns as McCain's running mate in an uphill contest against Democrat Barack Obama.

But the panel of lawmakers voted to release the report, although not without dissension. There was no immediate vote on whether to endorse its findings.
"I think there are some problems in this report," said Republican state Sen. Gary Stevens, a member of the panel. "I would encourage people to be very cautious, to look at this with a jaundiced eye."

The nearly 300-page report does not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation.

The investigation revealed that Palin's husband, Todd, has extraordinary access to the governor's office and her closest advisers. He used that access to try to get trooper Mike Wooten fired, the report found.

Branchflower faulted Sarah Palin for taking no action to stop that. He also noted there is evidence the governor herself participated in the effort.
Wooten had been in hot water before Palin became governor over allegations that he illegally shot a moose, drank beer in a patrol car and used a Taser on his stepson.

In proceedings revealed by the report, former Alaska State Trooper Col. Julia Grimes told investigators that Sarah Palin called her in late 2005 to discuss why Wooten hadn't been fired, and Grimes told her the inquiry was confidential by law.

"Her questions were how can a trooper who behaves this way still be working," Grimes said. "I asked her to please trust me, that because I can't tell her details I would ask her to please trust me that I would take the appropriate action if and when I knew what the findings were. ... I couldn't have another conversation with her about it because, again, it's protected by law."
Grimes said Todd Palin also contacted her by telephone in late 2005 to discuss the confidential investigation of Wooten.

Wooten's disciplinary case was settled in September 2006 months before Palin was elected governor and he was allowed to continue working as a trooper.

After Palin's election, her new public safety commissioner, Monegan, said he was summoned to the governor's office to meet Todd Palin, who said Wooten's punishment had been merely a "slap on the wrist." Monegan said he understood the Palins wanted Wooten fired. "I had this kind of ominous feeling that I may not be long for this job if I didn't somehow respond accordingly," Monegan told the investigator.

For months afterward, Todd Palin filed complaints about Wooten, saying he was seen riding a snowmobile after he had filed a worker's compensation claim and was seen dropping off his children at school in his patrol car. Monegan said Wooten's doctor had authorized the snowmobile trip and his supervisor had approved his use of the patrol car. Monegan said Alaska's attorney general later called him to inquire about Wooten, and Monegan told him they shouldn't be discussing the subject.

"This was an issue that apparently wasn't going to go away, that there were certainly frustrations," Monegan said. "To say that (Sarah Palin) was focused on this I think would be accurate."

(end of article)


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Psych Lit wrote:
id be very careful if i were sarah palin or mccain.  making those kinds of slippery associations might come back to bite her. ill bet there are more than a few extremists and fringe folks hiding out there in the great frontier and if shes not careful with her statements about others charitible committee membership associations someone might decide to see whos on her or the first dudes list of relevant memberships.






here's an appetizer:


ARCHIVES

Keith Olbermann on MSNBCs Countdown last night:

OLBERMANN: Why do William Ayers and the Reverend Jeremiah Wright matter? The answer, we are told, has to do with Barack Obama's judgment and character, judgment in choosing to associate with them, judgment in choosing to serve on a board with Ayers, character in choosing not to walk out on Wright's rhetoric.

Marilyn Shannon, who defended the woman who shot the doctor, and whom the sentencing judge described as a terrorist, was a McCain delegate at the GOP convention last month
In our fourth story: What we learn applying this litmus test to John McCain.

We told you last night about the U.S. Council for World Freedom on whose board John McCain sat for years. But while Ayers was a rehabilitated terrorist when Obama served on a board with him, what about McCain's fellow board members in the '80s?

What about fellow board member, Anthony Bouscaren-a veteran of the Pioneer Fund, a eugenics group researching white superiority? Or fellow board member, Jay Parker, a registered foreign agent for the apartheid government of South Africa in the late '70s?

And if board co-membership is so toxic, what about McCain's list of endorsements today, including Leonore Annenberg, widow of philanthropist Walter Annenberg, who created the project on which both Ayers and Obama served?

And what of Obama attending sermons by the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, never mind the fact that the teams of opposition researchers have yet to produce any evidence that Obama witnessed any of Wright's critics of America? If that tells us anything, what does August 30th, 1993 tell us? On that day, McCain attended a fund-raiser for the Oregon Citizens' Alliance. He can't claim he wasn't warned going in 30 protestors picketed him for endorsing the anti-gay group.

Prior to McCain's appearance there, a Republican senator, a colleague of his, Mark Hatfield, warned Senator McCain not to do it. McCain's own staffers called it "The invitation from hell," the Oregonian newspaper reported. An Arizona newspaper column previewed the speech with this headline, quote, "Hate Group Finds Friend in McCain."

And yet, McCain went, sat silently, offered no rebuke during or after the remarks of this woman, Marilyn Shannon, who praised a local woman who had just shot a doctor less than two weeks earlier. A doctor who was a former Navy flight surgeon, a sonogram pioneer, was shot in both arms because he performed legal abortions.

Unlike Ayers, who did not endorse terrorist activities during his meetings with Obama, this woman, Shannon, said of the shooter, as McCain sat there, quote, "Shes a fine lady." A judge later sentenced this "fine lady" for a campaign of, yes, bombing womens clinics said, quote, "Though, I am loathed to call anyone a terrorist, you are a terrorist."

And Marilyn Shannon, who defended that terrorist, who later said her praise did not mean she approves of others doing what that terrorist did, as McCain renounced her even, she was a Bush delegate in 2004, seen here with a purple heart bandage, mocking the American combat veteran, John Kerry. This year, last month, she was a delegate for John McCain.

Judgment and character.

(end of article)



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Watching last night's debate, I kept wondering if it was a re-run. blahblah.gif
"Didn't we hear that before?" "He said that last time." "We've already heard those numbers."
It seemed they were both pretty much sticking to pulling from their stump speeches, and maybe forgot that they'd done the same thing a couple of weeks ago. The same false accusations, rebutted with the same words ... yawn.gif

i didnt watch the debate in its entirety it was too painful to do so. the first thing i noticed was how winded mccain was from just walking on the stage. thats scary. he stayed winded for a good 10 min after getting up there. thats even scarier. i could hear the wheezing and breathlessness in his voice when he spoke and he looked pain and tired. then i noticed how cranky he seemed, no not cranky. agitated.  my opinon of mccain was far higher before these debates. he seemed an honorable man but this kind of viciousness doenst  frame anyone in a good light.  it didnt come off well especially when obama is sitting there calmly looking at him like oh geez grandpas on a roll here. i dont think it played well. perhaps he thought it would make him seem stronger or more manly but really it just made him look desparate.  i think obamas rise in the polls following that debate bear that out.  these are times when we really need a calm hand on the rudder not this all out omg we have to do soooooooomething quickly thing that seems to be what mccains been doing.  all of that frenetic stuff is contributing to the problems especially with the markets. with all of that out of the head speaking, (buying up all the bad debt while simultaneously lowering taxes? what?)  hell with that much uncertaintly over what the policies will be in january its no wonder the market is all over the place. if mccain and obama really wanted to put the country before election they, and bush, should get together and decide what course the country will take no matter who gets elected. once thats clear things might settle down.  still, i heard lots of BIG plans on both sides and how ANY of that will be paid for is beyond me. why should we expect borrowers and banks to live within their means when the government is willing to go into massive debt? and to foriegn nations.  were they to tell us the truth this economic mess will color the next few years and taxes will be raised and programs cut.  i for one would like to know now, before we elect them, which programs will be cut.  mccain has already said social security and medicaid will go or wont be the programs we think of now.

There was though, one passage which grabbed my attention -- when McCain asserted:

"I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how to get him. I'll get him no matter what and I know how to do it."

at which point the other folks in the retirement home say settle down johnny have a cookie and some milk.  im afraid of how he would do it if given a chance. who would he go to war with to do so? pakistan? why not play right into their hands.  bin laden isnt spending 10 bil a month. all he has to do is lay low in the cave till we run out of money.


I thought that, and then mentally added: "And quit calling me your 'friend.' This is the 14th time thus far tonight you've used that phrase, and I want you to stop. I'm not your friend, John, and I just don't want you to continue calling me that. It's cloying pandering, and it ain't working."

and it sounds so angry and bitter. not friendly at all.

IMO Obama was the clear victor in last night's debate. McCain said he was answering questions (implying Obama wasn't) but he wasn't. He was throwing out ancient platitudes most of the evening: "This is the greatest country in the world." OK, you get to say that once, but you don't get to use that as your default answer to any hard question, John. John? Over here, John. Get back on the stage, John, and please go stand beside "That one."

i found that phrase to be beyond disrespectful. he lost big points for that one with any rational folks. it just sounded angry and desparate.

<slipping JM note: "Obama. His name's senator Obama.">




 



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The McCain staff has very recently admitted desperate times call for desperate measures. Here's the new plan:
The Washington Post
October 6, 2008

By Dana Milbank
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- "Okay, so Florida, you know that you're going to have to hang onto your hats," Sarah Palin told a rally of a few thousand here this morning, "because from now until Election Day it may get kind of rough."

You betcha. And the person dishing out the roughest stuff at the moment is Sarah Palin.

"I was reading my copy of the New York Times the other day," she said.

"Booooo!" replied the crowd.

"I knew you guys would react that way, okay," she continued. "So I was reading the New York Times and I was really interested to read about Barack's friends from Chicago."

It was time to revive the allegation, made over the weekend, that Obama "pals around" with terrorists, in this case Bill Ayers, late of the Weather Underground. Many independent observers say Palin's allegations are a stretch; Obama served on a Chicago charitable board with Ayers, now an education professor, and has condemned his past activities.

"Now it turns out, one of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers," Palin said.

"Boooo!" said the crowd.

"And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,'" she continued.

"Boooo!" the crowd repeated.

"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

id heard about this and found it incredible that she didnt put an end to that quickly. i hope the secret service removed this person and arrested he or she for making that threat? how awful.  id be very careful if i were sarah palin or mccain.  making those kinds of slippery associations might come back to bite her. ill bet there are more than a few extremists and fringe folks hiding out there in the great frontier and if shes not careful with her statements about others charitible committee membership associations someone might decide to see whos on her or the first dudes list of relevant memberships.


 

 




 



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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:


Yeah. "Senator" is his title, BD. You got me there. But your emphasis on "is" before "Obama" is questionable, since the "Obama" part wasn't a part of the equation. It wasn't as if he'd just called him "Obama." He called him "that one." That was my point.


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 19:04, 2008-10-08


See, I don't have any desire at all to "get" you, or anyone in this. But I would bet good money that all four of the idiots up for office right now would love that. In-fighting and contention at any cost. They don't care about us, not a single one of them.



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BoxDog wrote:

As long as the notes are being passed around, slip one to BO. Esteemed(sic) Congresswomen and Senators should probably NOT be referred to as cuties. IMHO.


Brings to mind a joke senator McCain told ten years ago:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

No reference to "cutie" there, is there? Whew.  blankstare

Now, granted, that would probably be out of the ballpark thigh-slappin' humor on Alaska, but can you even begin to imagine Barack Obama telling a joke like that?


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 19:45, 2008-10-08

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BoxDog wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:



<slipping JM note: "Obama. His name's senator Obama.">
 




As long as the notes are being passed around, slip one to BO. Esteemed(sic) Congresswomen and Senators should probably NOT be referred to as cuties. IMHO.


Yeah. He was handicapped though, in that McCain had already scooped up all the other "cu" words one calls women.



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BoxDog wrote:

And really, his name is Obama, his title is Senator. no.gif



Right.  
And let's not forget that sinister middle name. The unpatriotic one. I'm sure we'll be hearing it a lot in the next month. 


But the esteemed senator from Arizona chose to refer to him as "that one." 


What happened? Did senator McCain forget his name? Is that what he was scribbling on his pad the minute he walked onto stage? His opponet's name, but in his wandering around the stage he ended up too far away to see his cheat sheet? Or did his TV break in the 60's and he just hasn't bothered to replace it yet?
 
"Who's running against you Senator McCain?"

"Who? Why...


that one! VUCWsOqQVt4A0DY1RTopXvugA0K0wfEu00C8.jpg






That one what?
Oh yeah, I know. Never mind.

"pallin' around with terrorists"

Less than a month.
The music's just been cranked up on the Palin/McCain limbo.

"How low can you go?"
Guess we'll see.

Yeah. "Senator" is his title, BD. You got me there. But your emphasis on "is" before "Obama" is questionable, since the "Obama" part wasn't a part of the equation. It wasn't as if he'd just called him "Obama." He called him "that one." That was my point.


-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 19:04, 2008-10-08

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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:



<slipping JM note: "Obama. His name's senator Obama.">
 




As long as the notes are being passed around, slip one to BO. Esteemed(sic) Congresswomen and Senators should probably NOT be referred to as cuties. IMHO. And really, his name is Obama, his title is Senator. no.gif



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LOL it seems to me both parties are trying to see who can shoot themselves the most times before they finally kill themselves.  
I do think McCain so far has made the most deadly shot with Sarah. If he did really pick her, I am thinkin he wanted Liberman and the GOP said no so he killed himself just to show 'em.


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my days left here may not be long, I wouldn't waste my time telling you nothing wrong, love is a flower that needs the sun and the rain, alittle bit of pleasure is worth a whole lot of pain.
no pain no gain. betty wright



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About freakin' time .... evileye

October 8, 2008

Gallup Daily: Obamas Lead Over McCain Expands to 11

52% share of the vote is Obamas highest to date

PRINCETON, NJ -- The latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking report shows Barack Obama with a 52% to 41% lead over John McCain.

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These results, based on Oct. 5-7 polling, are the best for Obama during the campaign, both in terms of his share of the vote and the size of his lead over McCain. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)

Nearly all interviews in today's report were conducted before Tuesday night's town hall style debate in Nashville. Any movement in voter preferences as a result of this debate will be apparent in coming days.

Voter preferences seem to have stabilized for the moment, as Obama has held a double-digit lead over McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling.

Concern about the economy seems to be playing to Obama's advantage; he overtook McCain when the financial crisis worsened in the middle of September, and his strong showing today coincides with the worst rating of the economy this year (59% of Americans describe current economic conditions as "poor"). -- Jeff Jones



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The McCain staff has very recently admitted desperate times call for desperate measures. Here's the new plan:
The Washington Post
October 6, 2008

By Dana Milbank
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- "Okay, so Florida, you know that you're going to have to hang onto your hats," Sarah Palin told a rally of a few thousand here this morning, "because from now until Election Day it may get kind of rough."

You betcha. And the person dishing out the roughest stuff at the moment is Sarah Palin.

"I was reading my copy of the New York Times the other day," she said.

"Booooo!" replied the crowd.

"I knew you guys would react that way, okay," she continued. "So I was reading the New York Times and I was really interested to read about Barack's friends from Chicago."

It was time to revive the allegation, made over the weekend, that Obama "pals around" with terrorists, in this case Bill Ayers, late of the Weather Underground. Many independent observers say Palin's allegations are a stretch; Obama served on a Chicago charitable board with Ayers, now an education professor, and has condemned his past activities.

"Now it turns out, one of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers," Palin said.

"Boooo!" said the crowd.

"And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,'" she continued.

"Boooo!" the crowd repeated.

"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

Palin went on to say that "Obama held one of the first meetings of his political career in Bill Ayers's living room, and they've worked together on various projects in Chicago." Here, Palin began to connect the dots. "These are the same guys who think that patriotism is paying higher taxes -- remember that's what Joe Biden had said. "And" -- she paused and sighed -- "I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America, as the greatest force for good in the world. I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as 'imperfect enough' to work with a former domestic terrorist who had targeted his own country."

"Boooo!" said the audience.

(End of Post Article)



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