im thinking marxism and darwinism speak to this philosophy from some past page:) yano ive always wanted to explore the commonalities between these two. im thinking they speak the same language
The difference is Darwinism evolved. That's why it has potential to succeed, excel. Marxism is intentionally limited, little boxes of sameness and insignificance.
i think human thought development tends to move in similar ways worldwide at particular times which is why its impossible to step outside of context when reading people, marx and darwin shared an epoch and knew one another and each apparently commented on the others ideas. capitalism is sort of darwinian in many ways and marxism is an unfolding of the human world removed from its animal base thru technology. i think it would be an interesting thing to explore. i see a lot of clusters like this. look at the early 20th cent and you see people conceptualizing many of the same ideas thru writing, art, science etc. its an interesting thing we humans do.
As for nursing? And this is not intended to be misconstrued as a racist remark. I'll be clear on that if I make one. Try to find a white one in any number of nursing mills around this country. They're easy to spot. They're usually alone in their class. And, they paid for school. around here there are types of nursing programs. some are very good and others are those diploma mill kinds of places. one of the best programs is run thru the state technical colleges and they are highly selective in their admissions processes as are the 3 or 4 four year college programs that tend toward those specializations like midwife or aprn and then there are the 25k a year accept anybody programs. the state does pay people who are unemployed or underemployed to take these classes thru the tech colleges but only the high scoreres get into the nursing program and even then they have to wait a couple of years to get in. most people get placed in other tech college programs like emt or medical billing or med assistant. one of my kids got into one of these programs and her tuition was paid for her. future daughter in law on the other hand is in a nursing program at one of the 4 year colleges tho this is the 3rd program shes been accepted to. her grades have been ok but shes not liked the programs so she switches. she and my son have been in school the exact same number of years. he graduated last month and she says she still has 3 years to go..god only knows why but meanwhile shes racking up the student loans and since shell prolly marry my kid i worry about this especially since when we have discussed her desires she seems more inclined toward a career in fashion design or interior decorating or becoming a chef. her eyes light up at those possibilities and im leaning toward thinking that her 7 year college plan has more to do with disinterest in nursing rather than boring programs. i do feel bad tho for those kids who enroll in those 25k programs with a partial subsidy from the states. most dont make it thru and now they are still unemployed and in debt for 20k
im thinking its pierre bordieu standing on the shoulders of emile durkheim tho i cant be sure of either. ill try and look them up later. i know i had several of bordieus books in my personal library and was intrigued for a bit by his ideas on symbolic violence. i prolly still have them in boxes in the storage room. im wishing that i had labeled them yanno? im thinking marxism and darwinism speak to this philosophy from some past page:) yano ive always wanted to explore the commonalities between these two. im thinking they speak the same language
The difference is Darwinism evolved. That's why it has potential to succeed, excel. Marxism is intentionally limited, little boxes of sameness and insignificance.
As for nursing? And this is not intended to be misconstrued as a racist remark. I'll be clear on that if I make one. Try to find a white one in any number of nursing mills around this country. They're easy to spot. They're usually alone in their class. And, they paid for school.
This country needs a class system. The bumper sticker about the great kids is crap. They're all great until their parents and other social trappings fail them. One of which is putting a lowly social stigma on other programs for young pople, like vocational schools.
exactly. the arguement tho is that educational facilities in the us reproduce the systems of class distinction by sheparding people into occupations based upon race or class distinctions and that the system is self perpetuating. poor people do not have the money to spend to send their kids to gymboree or montessori schools, they often have economic needs that get in the way of kids learning, nutrition, keeping the electricity going, having a stable living environment and not so coincidentally the neighborhood schools where poor kids go often have a lack of the kinds of materials that kids in wealthier neighborhoods have, new text books, computers, small class sizes. the kids start out behind and the system keeps them behind. kids in the poorer schools are tracked for menial jobs (the acceptability of high dropout rates) or service jobs, sending them to jr college or trade school while kids of the middle class are being shaped for teaching or nursing, middle management etc and the "best" (read better paying) jobs are reserved for the wealthy kids who do summers abroad, intern at daddy or mommys hospital, have small classes and private tutors go to prep school or the ivys and network and connect with others of the upperclass (people who run things) but youre exactly right that we do need plumbers and builders and fixers of all sorts and we still need people to empty the garbage and all of these things are necessary for an orderly society tho we dont value many of these jobs with higher income levels or respect for the knowledge that is necessary to do the job right.
MLK said if you sweep streets be the best street sweeper you can be. It's as simple as that. I think Obama, and others have put a mental bar out there that young urban kids understand moreso than the leaders, that universities just aren't their path to a self sustaining future. There aren't enough jobs for exiting grads,
and this is a real problem. what will the excess population do to survive. as people live and work longer as mechanization and automation takes away tasks? as a nation we have seemed ok with the percentage of throwaway humans to date and mostly this is because as a nation weve rationalized it in terms of class or race. we can look at prison populations or drug abuse and say oh well its "them" what do we expect. but them could just as easily be "us" and prolly will in a few years when the demographics change.
Talk about the financial burden of the next generation, what of the psychological one? I really want to know which French Philosopher is coming to your mind, cuz all I think of is Sartre and the last thing I gravitate toward is Marxism. ;)
im thinking its pierre bordieu standing on the shoulders of emile durkheim tho i cant be sure of either. ill try and look them up later. i know i had several of bordieus books in my personal library and was intrigued for a bit by his ideas on symbolic violence. i prolly still have them in boxes in the storage room. im wishing that i had labeled them yanno? im thinking marxism and darwinism speak to this philosophy from some past page:) yano ive always wanted to explore the commonalities between these two. im thinking they speak the same language
I guess nobody told him that highly educated, well groomed, otherwise "successful" people and their families are losing their jobs, homes, life savings, cars and ending up on the streets. The only thing they need is moral support, a job and some faith in public administration. I moaned really loudly for this idiot.
BD
these are good points and it causes me to wonder if, in this new shrinking economy, we have too many well trained people chasing too few jobs. if so what does that mean for our educational system. do we have kids spend a fortune getting college degrees where there is no possibility for jobs? i forget the guys name, hes a french philosopher, and he said that we had a class system in the us that was reinforced by institutions. we needed a leader class to run thing from the top, a middle level for the day to day management and various white collar orgs and we also needed to have a working and service class and that the redlining, and neighborhood differences in public ed all exist to reinforce these class distinctions. and heres the part thats running in my head. harvards whole history has been to reinforce the top of the food chain while keeping that service class going (when there are too many poor people to be employed in the service industry crime solves the problem by housing people in prisons or keeping them ensnared in drug addiction. so theres a part of me that thinks harvard and yale and princeton and brown etc all have some responsibility to undo what has been done by many many years of the policies put in place by their grads.
This country needs a class system. The bumper sticker about the great kids is crap. They're all great until their parents and other social trappings fail them. One of which is putting a lowly social stigma on other programs for young pople, like vocational schools. Could you imagine a republic where the only professions anyone was in is attorney or Autobiographer? Who would fix cars, repair a/c, roofs, construct buildings, serve food and beverage? MLK said if you sweep streets be the best street sweeper you can be. It's as simple as that. I think Obama, and others have put a mental bar out there that young urban kids understand moreso than the leaders, that universities just aren't their path to a self sustaining future. There aren't enough jobs for exiting grads, mid life tenured employees and slightly later in life employers switching gears on their financial majors in the job world. It just isn't realistic. Talk about the financial burden of the next generation, what of the psychological one? I really want to know which French Philosopher is coming to your mind, cuz all I think of is Sartre and the last thing I gravitate toward is Marxism. ;)
I guess nobody told him that highly educated, well groomed, otherwise "successful" people and their families are losing their jobs, homes, life savings, cars and ending up on the streets. The only thing they need is moral support, a job and some faith in public administration. I moaned really loudly for this idiot.
BD
these are good points and it causes me to wonder if, in this new shrinking economy, we have too many well trained people chasing too few jobs. if so what does that mean for our educational system. do we have kids spend a fortune getting college degrees where there is no possibility for jobs? i forget the guys name, hes a french philosopher, and he said that we had a class system in the us that was reinforced by institutions. we needed a leader class to run thing from the top, a middle level for the day to day management and various white collar orgs and we also needed to have a working and service class and that the redlining, and neighborhood differences in public ed all exist to reinforce these class distinctions. and heres the part thats running in my head. harvards whole history has been to reinforce the top of the food chain while keeping that service class going (when there are too many poor people to be employed in the service industry crime solves the problem by housing people in prisons or keeping them ensnared in drug addiction. so theres a part of me that thinks harvard and yale and princeton and brown etc all have some responsibility to undo what has been done by many many years of the policies put in place by their grads.
Wait a sec ... The young woman DID have practically a 4.0 gpa ... what's WRONG with her getting into Harvard, just because she "qualified" under very difficult conditions?
hmm well id assume that most people who apply to harvard, and there are prolly 10s of thousands of them competing for a what? a thousand slots every year? all have a 4.0 or close to it and all prolly have a bazillion after schcool activites and tons of community service hours. if all are equal in terms of grades and activities where do they go to next to decide? the affirmative action cases resolved in 03 or 04? passed down guidelines on what was and what was not acceptable. there cant be a minority track for admission all have to be similarly qualified and financial aid was supposed to now be based on need rather than race etc so it makes the michele obama statement suspect. all grades being equal. most of the ivy league schools have jumped on the bandwagon of giving low income students a free ride thru college so they are getting more applications than ever before. so people like this woman who achieved a 4.0 under difficult circumstances gets a bump up. if the decision tho is predicated on the idea that someone who comes from a chaotic home has a better chance of getting in than someone who doesnt doesnt sit right with me. yes her story is remarkable and yes shes worked hard to earn her slot but im hoping that the decision is made on the basis of her abilities and intelligence and not on the backstory. im worried about that precedent. im concerned about two other things here, how she will process her new life with that of her mother and sibs and how she managed to get that 4.0 when she missed half years or more of school. i hope that this summer program shes attending gives her skills that will allow her to succeed in a highly competitive environment like harvard.
But, I don't think that this case by case prejudice is really what will benefit the greater good. Ever. Two things about it make it contemptable first, keeping it secret if it's taking place. The second is announcing it if it's taking place. It shouldn't be happening.
BD, really
Wait a sec ... The young woman DID have practically a 4.0 gpa ... what's WRONG with her getting into Harvard, just because she "qualified" under very difficult conditions?
So why wasn't that sufficient for Julie Hilden to make her recommendation? She felt compelled to toss in the "wait, might be the next MICHELLE Obama?" Why? She's being hand held, cherry picked and I'm quite certain there are other kids out there with greater than 4+ gpa's that don't have a Julie Hilden saying hey wait, I want this one. That's all.
But, I don't think that this case by case prejudice is really what will benefit the greater good. Ever. Two things about it make it contemptable first, keeping it secret if it's taking place. The second is announcing it if it's taking place. It shouldn't be happening.
BD, really
Wait a sec ... The young woman DID have practically a 4.0 gpa ... what's WRONG with her getting into Harvard, just because she "qualified" under very difficult conditions?
They could have used the example of an educated black woman who actually "broke a ceiling" or added something significant via the educational community, medical field, technology or leadership, of her own.
Agreed. Or even an anglo guy, maybe, you know? I "get" that Michelle Obama has a high IQ, and has, really, become "successful" but she didn't rise from great poverty and that seems to be the "story" here, so for me, the analogy was false, and pretty racist. I doubt the woman would have said that had Michelle Obama been anglo.
You know over the last couple of years, the pre, full blown and post election days I had more than a few conversations with plain old white guys who were bemoaning financial, educational and employment advantages of women and minorities. Though I realize there is some validity in their caveman argument about losing ground on the food chain, they would never know from my input. Which, for the most part consists of " I have no idea where you're coming from".
One other thing, as for Harvard? Seems to me their PC has a virus. This story reminds me of their inclination to allow separate private time for Muslim women in their school gyms, or something. I know I had a very different op than someone here, Psych? But, I don't think that this case by case prejudice is really what will benefit the greater good. Ever. Two things about it make it contemptable first, keeping it secret if it's taking place. The second is announcing it if it's taking place. It shouldn't be happening.
what struck me in this story was the mother and sister. obviously the woman going on to harvard is bright in the top 99 percentile. the best predictor of a childs iq is the mothers iq and i wondered how mom ended up on the streets. i hope that the younger kid is inspired by her older sister to stay focused and get out of that situation too. the article makes it seems as tho they are living in a storage unit now.
Surely you're not making a correlation between homelessness and intelligence?
no. id assume that having a baby at 14 and dropping out of school are in large part responsible for the conditions leading to that result. im more in wonder about the people who are creating the situation where the daughter who is going on to harvard will have:
"a support network of faculty, counselors and a host family that will all help foster her growth".
while her mother and sister apparently live out of a storage facility with no host family, not support network etc. chances are that mom and the sisters iqs are up there too and where are the offers to help them get back on their feet? or the intervention that should have happened sometime in the 18 years while mom was dragging these kids from shelter to shelter which is what makes this story remarkable. where were the social workers in those 18 years? why did this kid attend school for half of the school year most years? isnt school a requirement in every state till a certain age? where was the intervention to help this family achieve more stability? and why doesnt harvard step in now and try and help this family? the mother gave birth to this kid when she was 14 that would make her what? 32? not exactly old age. why not use some of that endowment money to send mom back to school or to sponsor supportive housing for the 11 year old sister so that her probable intelligence can be supported too? what do we value in others that allows us to pluck someone from a bad situation and give them the cinderella experience while leaving their family behind in squalor? in this case the things that seem valued are the iq and the bootstrap story. i think of this 18 year old girl going thru the next 4 years knowing that her mother and sister are still on the streets. no stress there eh? there are kids that drop out of college everyday because they worry about whats going on at home. im thinking that harvard should be thinking more holistically about this situation and seeing it as symptomatic of a larger problem that needs to be addressed.
What does that mean, all she is now is some guys wife. They could have used the example of an educated black woman who actually "broke a ceiling" or added something significant via the educational community, medical field, technology or leadership, of her own. That guidance counselor showed the type of bias that fodders contempt and a spirit that reverse discrimination is very much a reality.
I went to a Mayoral candidate forum a couple of nights ago. The candidates that chose to attend a forum hosted by the St. Pete Pride were given a series of previously unknown, to them, questions. Obviously at least one was bound to include homelessness. I wanted to scream when one, well groomed, seemingly intelligent reasonably honest (he did admit he would not sign a proclamation for the event this Saturday or attend it). No Mayor ever has.
Bottom line on this one relates to the previous question. This one cadidate actually said aloud that his "homeless agenda" would include mentoring, tutoring, educational assistance, life skills, sheltering arrangements.
I guess nobody told him that highly educated, well groomed, otherwise "successful" people and their families are losing their jobs, homes, life savings, cars and ending up on the streets. The only thing they need is moral support, a job and some faith in public administration. I moaned really loudly for this idiot.
They could have used the example of an educated black woman who actually "broke a ceiling" or added something significant via the educational community, medical field, technology or leadership, of her own.
Agreed. Or even an anglo guy, maybe, you know? I "get" that Michelle Obama has a high IQ, and has, really, become "successful" but she didn't rise from great poverty and that seems to be the "story" here, so for me, the analogy was false, and pretty racist. I doubt the woman would have said that had Michelle Obama been anglo.
... until I got to this part of the story about the homeless young woman going to Harvard:
"...Her Harvard recruiter, Julie Hilden, said she was impressed with her scholastic performance and knew she was a top candidate. The challenge for the Ivy League school is to create a support network of faculty, counselors and a host family that will all help foster her growth.
"I strongly recommended her," Hilden told the newspaper. "I told them, 'If you don't take her, you might be missing out on the next Michelle Obama. Don't make this mistake.' "
Oh. I get it. She's Black.
i have a feeling based on that statement that this young woman will be the one fostering growth:)
what struck me in this story was the mother and sister. obviously the woman going on to harvard is bright in the top 99 percentile. the best predictor of a childs iq is the mothers iq and i wondered how mom ended up on the streets. i hope that the younger kid is inspired by her older sister to stay focused and get out of that situation too. the article makes it seems as tho they are living in a storage unit now.
Surely you're not making a correlation between homelessness and intelligence?
... until I got to this part of the story about the homeless young woman going to Harvard:
"...Her Harvard recruiter, Julie Hilden, said she was impressed with her scholastic performance and knew she was a top candidate. The challenge for the Ivy League school is to create a support network of faculty, counselors and a host family that will all help foster her growth.
"I strongly recommended her," Hilden told the newspaper. "I told them, 'If you don't take her, you might be missing out on the next Michelle Obama. Don't make this mistake.' "
Oh. I get it. She's Black.
i have a feeling based on that statement that this young woman will be the one fostering growth:)
what struck me in this story was the mother and sister. obviously the woman going on to harvard is bright in the top 99 percentile. the best predictor of a childs iq is the mothers iq and i wondered how mom ended up on the streets. i hope that the younger kid is inspired by her older sister to stay focused and get out of that situation too. the article makes it seems as tho they are living in a storage unit now.
My feeling is twofold. First, this is bound to ignite contempt. Sounds like the school plans to change the manner of doing business to make this student a "pet project". Regardless of potential they are announcing the intentions to create a playing field specifically designed for her, alone. Second, the blatant color reference is ridiculous and would not be tolerated if one were trying to create the next Chelsea Clinton. It's almost threatening in fact. If you don't take her... And really Michelle Obama? Who, yes, had six seats on corporate boards of directors and a position created for her at University Chicago Medical center, a law degree and gave birth twice. Other than that? The color reference and "missing out on the next Michelle Obama"? What does that mean, all she is now is some guys wife. They could have used the example of an educated black woman who actually "broke a ceiling" or added something significant via the educational community, medical field, technology or leadership, of her own. That guidance counselor showed the type of bias that fodders contempt and a spirit that reverse discrimination is very much a reality.
... until I got to this part of the story about the homeless young woman going to Harvard:
"...Her Harvard recruiter, Julie Hilden, said she was impressed with her scholastic performance and knew she was a top candidate. The challenge for the Ivy League school is to create a support network of faculty, counselors and a host family that will all help foster her growth.
"I strongly recommended her," Hilden told the newspaper. "I told them, 'If you don't take her, you might be missing out on the next Michelle Obama. Don't make this mistake.' "
Oh. I get it. She's Black.
i have a feeling based on that statement that this young woman will be the one fostering growth:)
what struck me in this story was the mother and sister. obviously the woman going on to harvard is bright in the top 99 percentile. the best predictor of a childs iq is the mothers iq and i wondered how mom ended up on the streets. i hope that the younger kid is inspired by her older sister to stay focused and get out of that situation too. the article makes it seems as tho they are living in a storage unit now.
... until I got to this part of the story about the homeless young woman going to Harvard:
"...Her Harvard recruiter, Julie Hilden, said she was impressed with her scholastic performance and knew she was a top candidate. The challenge for the Ivy League school is to create a support network of faculty, counselors and a host family that will all help foster her growth.
"I strongly recommended her," Hilden told the newspaper. "I told them, 'If you don't take her, you might be missing out on the next Michelle Obama. Don't make this mistake.' "
