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Nightowlhoot3 · Guru

Church and state renew marriage vows

Psych Lit · Guru

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Not much likin' this ...

Obama Creates Faith-Based Office
By PHILIP ELLIOTT
,
AP
WASHINGTON (Feb. 5) - Declaring that "there is a force for good greater than government," President Barack Obama on Thursday established a White House office of faith-based initiatives with a broader mission than the one overseen by his Republican predecessor.

Theres been a few challenges to the idea of separation of church and state in the last year. The one that is most worrisome to me is one that has a compelling legal argument which just might succeed in making some serious changes unless the Supreme Court balance changes soon.

The notion that most of us hold is that the church state separation is to keep religion out of government but there is a constitutional arguement being formed that its the reverse which is true. The separation between church and state was to keep government out of religion. Theres a few court cases making their way thru the system now having to do with preachers asking their flocks to vote in particular ways (read republican) and because of this their tax exempt status has been challenged. The cornerstone of the arguement is the above.

heres a version of the thinking from catholic news. *their agenda is the pro life and anti gay agenda* and they wish to have their members organize as a church group and take on the government on these issues. (without losing the tax exemption of course.

I listened to a really good debate on this on npr a few months ago. I think I may have posted the link at that time?

CHURCH-STATE Jan-14-2008 (760 words) xxxi

U.S. church-state model faces new challenges, speakers say

By John Thavis
Catholic News Service

ROME (CNS) -- The traditional U.S. model of church-state relations has been praised by Pope Benedict XVI as a form of "healthy secularism," but it risks being eroded by those who want to limit religion's influence in public life, speakers at a Rome conference said.

The conference Jan. 13 marked the 25th anniversary of formal diplomatic relations between the United States and the Holy See. It was the last of a series of five encounters sponsored over the past year by the U.S. Embassy to the Vatican on the theme of religious liberty.

The U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, Mary Ann Glendon, introduced the program by pointing out that there are competing models of religious freedom in the United States, and that the future direction of church-state relations is a subject of intense debate.

Speakers agreed that there are persistent efforts in the United States to restrict religion to the private sphere -- something not intended by the framers of the Constitution.

Philip Hamburger, a professor at Columbia Law School in New York, said the original U.S. idea of "disestablishment," which prevented the government from establishing an official state church, has been increasingly replaced by the notion of strict separation between church and state.

This concept of separation developed not from the Founding Fathers but in later times, first as a form of discrimination against religious minorities, including Catholics, and later as a way to limit all religious influence in society, he said.

Hamburger said a second challenge was the trend toward regarding religious freedom more as a legal concession and less as an inalienable right.

He said the original U.S. church-state model defined religious liberty in relatively narrow terms as freedom from government interference and penalty. That was a good thing, he said, because it meant this freedom was unconditional and equal under law, regardless of one's religion.

But Hamburger said there's a modern tendency to broaden the understanding of religious freedom to include the so-called right of religious exemption, in effect giving individuals different degrees of freedom depending on their religion.

Religious freedom thus becomes "freedom from law," instead of "equal freedom under law," he said. This model ends up legitimizing religious opposition to law and making the Constitution an instrument of religious discrimination, he said.

Richard W. Garnett, a professor at the University of Notre Dame Law School in Indiana, said there were three competing concepts of religious freedom in the United States today. He described them as freedom from religion, freedom of religion and freedom for religion.

Freedom from religion accepts religion as a social phenomenon but sees it as a danger to the common good, and therefore tries to limit its expression to the private realm, he said. Freedom of religion emphasizes government neutrality toward religion, in which no special favor or accommodations are shown to religious groups or individuals.

Freedom for religion, Garnett said, sees religion as valuable and good, and worthy of public support. In this model, government will not only guarantee the conditions necessary for the free exercise of religion, but also look for ways to accommodate religions, he said.

Garnet said the freedom-for-religion model was closest to the ideas of the U.S. Founding Fathers.

The U.S. Constitution, he said, was clearly designed for a religious people, and its authors did not "want to push religion to the margins in the hope that it will wither." Rather, they sought to distinguish between the authorities and structures of religion and those of government, mainly as a safeguard against state interference in religious life, he said.

Joseph H.H. Weiler, a professor at the New York University School of Law, told the conference that a nation's cultural identity often includes religious history. In that sense, he said, it is a mistake to strip religious elements in order to maintain a strictly secular state.

That kind of secularism makes democracy a very unattractive option for many countries, he said.

"If democracy means that the state cannot think of itself with religious iconography, we have excluded a big part of the world as candidates for that model of democracy," he said.

Glendon, who was finishing her term as ambassador Jan. 19, said that after the pope's remarks in praise of the U.S. model of religious freedom the embassy began getting inquiries asking for a "five-minute" explanation of that model.

"I regret to say there does not exist anywhere any brief, simple explanation of one of the most complex, controversial areas of American law," she said.

Date: Thu Feb 5 10:47 PM, 2009

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

Not much likin' this ...

Obama Creates Faith-Based Office
By PHILIP ELLIOTT
,
AP
WASHINGTON (Feb. 5) - Declaring that "there is a force for good greater than government," President Barack Obama on Thursday established a White House office of faith-based initiatives with a broader mission than the one overseen by his Republican predecessor.

Obama said the new office, which he created by executive order, would reach out to organizations that provide help "no matter their religious or political beliefs."
Skip over this content
Obama said the office would work with nonprofit organizations "both secular and faith-based" and would help them determine how to make a bigger impact in their cities, learn their obligations under the law and cut through government red tape.

In a time of economic crisis, the president said, it was important for the government to help distressed Americans but added that "the change that Americans are looking for will not come from government alone."

Obama said the top priority of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships will be "making community groups an integral part of our economy recovery and poverty a burden fewer have to bear when recovery is complete."

To lead the office, Obama appointed Joshua DuBois, a 26-year-old Pentecostal minister who headed religious outreach for Obama's Senate office and his presidential campaign. He also named 25 religious and secular leaders to a new advisory board.

"The big picture is that President Obama believes faith-based and smaller secular neighborhood organizations can play a role in American renewal. They can work with the federal government to address big problems,"

DuBois said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We're also going to make sure we have a keener eye toward the separation of church and state."

Obama said the office would also work to reach out overseas "to foster interfaith dialogue with leaders and scholars around the world."

(end of snippet)

Well, this is a heck of a beginning for that "keener eye."

And the government gets bigger and bigger and more and more christian and effed up every day. This is no more or less earth shattering or promising than the veeps position of "Figuring Out Middle Class Woes". I can sum that up for Joe, corporations issuing massive layoffs, small business being forced to close their doors for skyrocketing rent, labor and any number of prohibitive restraints put on them nder the guise of strengthening small business. There's NO NEED to worry about national employer sponsored and employee grouped coalitions forming for better acess and les costly health care. There wont be any jobs by the end of 2010. Banks have money for loans, but the candidate pool gets smaller each day that a corporation fires 3-15 percent of its workforce. Those are not safe notes. Good available new money for lending but to whom? Nobody is "safe" from lay-offs. Which, I declare, today I will never use that term again. Calla firing what it is, a firing. One day you have a job, next you don't. That's fired.

I better call it a night, owl. ;) Have fun with the stars. Reminds me off that Cadillac ad with that woman, when you turn on your stars, do they return the favor? Sure they will. My last one was stolen. I probably shouldn't have left it in the parking lot unattended. Still miss it. Say, why don't you see if sparklit has a discussion board for astronomy?

Nightowlhoot3 · Guru

Not much likin' this ...

Obama Creates Faith-Based Office

By PHILIP ELLIOTT

,

AP

WASHINGTON (Feb. 5) - Declaring that "there is a force for good greater than government," President Barack Obama on Thursday established a White House office of faith-based initiatives with a broader mission than the one overseen by his Republican predecessor.

Obama said the new office, which he created by executive order, would reach out to organizations that provide help "no matter their religious or political beliefs."

Skip over this content

Obama said the office would work with nonprofit organizations "both secular and faith-based" and would help them determine how to make a bigger impact in their cities, learn their obligations under the law and cut through government red tape.

In a time of economic crisis, the president said, it was important for the government to help distressed Americans but added that "the change that Americans are looking for will not come from government alone."

Obama said the top priority of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships will be "making community groups an integral part of our economy recovery and poverty a burden fewer have to bear when recovery is complete."

To lead the office, Obama appointed Joshua DuBois, a 26-year-old Pentecostal minister who headed religious outreach for Obama's Senate office and his presidential campaign. He also named 25 religious and secular leaders to a new advisory board.

"The big picture is that President Obama believes faith-based and smaller secular neighborhood organizations can play a role in American renewal. They can work with the federal government to address big problems,"

DuBois said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We're also going to make sure we have a keener eye toward the separation of church and state."

Obama said the office would also work to reach out overseas "to foster interfaith dialogue with leaders and scholars around the world."

(end of snippet)

Well, this is a heck of a beginning for that "keener eye."

Where Everybody Knows You're Numb

Not much likin' this ... Obama Creates Faith-Based Office

Not much likin' this ... Obama Creates Faith-Based Office

Not much likin' this ... Obama Creates Faith-Based Office

Not much likin' this ...

Obama Creates Faith-Based Office

Not much likin' this ...

Obama Creates Faith-Based Office

Not much likin' this ...

Obama Creates Faith-Based Office