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Where Everybody Knows You're Numb -> SunnyliesaBunch -> Enough with grilling Ag, already!
Post Info TOPIC: Enough with grilling Ag, already!
Nightowlhoot3


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RE: Enough with grilling Ag, already!
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milo wrote:

Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

I also apologize if I hollered in frustration.

I acknowledge that I've been quick to irritation the last couple of weeks.

A lot of my frustration stems from the fact that I did try so danged hard to avoid this very sort of thing, and have obviously failed so miserably.

Believe me when I tell you the last thing in the world I want to do right now is create more angst and chaos in my world, or anyone else's.



Owlie not to worry, opo, is just that, opinion.
I know this board will close soon as you get some kind of closure, then you can return to your normal board with people who don't live to flame. The public board has really gone to h ell and some of us will be left boardless, in my case I see it as a blessing, although I have enjoyed some of the board interactions.
Welp back to packing,,,,, lawdy I can see the light now, I kept thinking my junk was breeding in the night.


There's no reason this board has to close. Not so far as I'm concerned, anyway. I'm in no hurry to yank it off the internet.

"Flaming?"

I'd be interested in actually having a conversation about flaming. I suspect there are a lot of interpretations of "flaming." For me? Taking issue with something someone has posted and addressing that, isn't flaming. If person X says "everybody in your neighborhood is a stupid, dirty ________" then is it "flaming" for me to reply and suggest that it is a ... whatever -- homophobic, sexist, racist, post? Is that flaming? I don't really know, I guess. I believe it would be, if I said that just out of the blue... if, for no reason at all, I said: X is a (fill in the blank.) I dunno. It's tricky, I guess. I do know that I'll be much more attentive to someone who has the courage to show their face, when leveling charges. Those who do so behind the veil of anonymity, remind me of Klansmen, in their sheets,  in a way -- bullies, who are really big ole chicken sh*ts. 

This has been characterized as a "flame board." Maybe it is, maybe it reads that way, but I swear that isn't how I intended it. I (again) truthfully intended that it just be like that AO* board -- with the presence of whomever came. I dunno, maybe it was foolhardy to allow anonymous posting, but that is available on AO*, with AIM names, so ...? I actually think the AO* guidelines as written, are pretty sound. It's the judicious implementation of them which has become the rubbing point. In my head, this space right here is no different from my wandering over to some vacant AO* board and setting up shop there, except that here, the "glitches" don't seem to happen with such frequency. I've been posting on a Sparklit board for about a year now, and have never seen a post disappear. Now, the autobot censor will make mentioning an adult beverage look like you're said a bad word, which is pretty funny, but eh? No big deal. 

"Closure?"

I don't know that I'm in search of that; don't know how "real" a thing that is, anyway. I know losses are to be grieved, and there are different stages of that process, leading to a final "acceptance" and I've been at "acceptance" with a lot of board-related things for a long time now. 

I don't know what I'd be getting "closure" about, really. Sunny? I got what ... I'm taking to be a retraction  (it was that, yes??) of the colossal-to-the-point-of absurd fib, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm "done" and frankly applaud Sunny for having the courage to restore her veracity and credibility.

Over the course of the years, I've found Sunny to be many things, but among them, always, was a willingness to be truthful. I know she probably doesn't care a whit what I think about her, but I really did appreciate the fact that she didn't ever seem to be intentionally lying about anything. I mean, before, sure, she plagiarized, which is a form of not being honest, but she always stood by what she'd posted as having posted it, and just argued whether or not it was plagiarism, and I have always appreciated that about her. 

Funny thing about these boards: what we leave upon them tends to be "read" as solely our reaction to one post, poster, or situation, and I would wager more often than not, our words more accurately reflect something completely unrelated, and oftentimes in our 3D lives, rather than our online ones. Maybe that's the missing element, which makes subscribing to the two dimensional judgments, etc. so easy. We don't take into account even the simplest things, like whether or not a person is posting from a lounge chair on an ocean liner's sunny deck, or the corner of a grimy coffee house. We don't know if the person posting is freezing, dripping with perspiration, sated, or hungry. We don't know if they've just won the lottery -- any lottery; doesn't need to be money, or just lost their home or best friend. 

We just know what we see here: characters on a screen, which combine to create words, which intend to convey a meaning, not of the whole of a person, but just one minute thought they are entertaining at the moment. That's all we have, really, and so it's that from which we must draw our conclusions.

People post differently. I was surprised to learn that years ago, actually.

I can't imagine posting any way other than the way I do. For me, when I post, it's sometimes... perhaps "bloglike" (I can't really seem to "do" blogging, though, the way it's "supposed" to be done) but really, I figure I'm conversing with a handful of people. I don't like (didn't like) reading by threads, but instead always read posts in the order of their arrival, all threads merging to be the whole of a multifaceted conversation. 

In that conversation, I "see" people. Some people, it seems, post .... eh? How to say? Not as conversation, but rather as paper writing, I guess. They take "message board" more literally than do I. I've never thought this venue to be a place to simply "leave messages." That may be too, a reason, in part, Sunny (who is VERY welcome to reply here, if she so wishes) and I clash re: "snippets."

I cannot imagine a conversation, where, before the next person speaks, they are forced to repeat, verbatim, every single word the person before them just said. Sure, if the omission of prior information significantly alters the intent of the point being addressed, then yeah, it's worth repeating, and perhaps important to repeat, even, but if a person were to begin talking to someone about their house, where it was situated and located, how many square feet it encompassed, how many windows it had, and how high the heating bills were, in the winter, because of those windows, and then the next person wanted to mention a covering for the windows which might help with the bills, then ... is there really a "need" for that person to first repeat the square footage of the house? I don't do "snippets" at people -- I don't think, really, anyone does. But not all people post from the perspective of a conversation, and to those people, I guess it's important to include the street address, before saying anything else. 

I don't see myself changing in the way I post anytime soon. Could happen, but I don't anticipate it.  

I don't know what will happen with this space. If "nothing" then that's cool. If "something," then that's cool too.

It's a public "space."

The front door's unlocked.

<shrug>



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milo


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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

I also apologize if I hollered in frustration.

I acknowledge that I've been quick to irritation the last couple of weeks.

A lot of my frustration stems from the fact that I did try so danged hard to avoid this very sort of thing, and have obviously failed so miserably.

Believe me when I tell you the last thing in the world I want to do right now is create more angst and chaos in my world, or anyone else's.



Owlie not to worry, opo, is just that, opinion.
I know this board will close soon as you get some kind of closure, then you can return to your normal board with people who don't live to flame. The public board has really gone to h ell and some of us will be left boardless, in my case I see it as a blessing, although I have enjoyed some of the board interactions.
Welp back to packing,,,,, lawdy I can see the light now, I kept thinking my junk was breeding in the night.



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my days left here may not be long, I wouldn't waste my time telling you nothing wrong, love is a flower that needs the sun and the rain, alittle bit of pleasure is worth a whole lot of pain.
no pain no gain. betty wright
Nightowlhoot3


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Posts: 1307
Date:
Permalink   

I also apologize if I hollered in frustration.

I acknowledge that I've been quick to irritation the last couple of weeks.

A lot of my frustration stems from the fact that I did try so danged hard to avoid this very sort of thing, and have obviously failed so miserably.

Believe me when I tell you the last thing in the world I want to do right now is create more angst and chaos in my world, or anyone else's.

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milo


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Date:
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who the hell got thrown under the bus here? was it a suicide? imslow.gif

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my days left here may not be long, I wouldn't waste my time telling you nothing wrong, love is a flower that needs the sun and the rain, alittle bit of pleasure is worth a whole lot of pain.
no pain no gain. betty wright
Nightowlhoot3


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Kwachie wrote:

This is the first, last and only time I will post anything here. I'm sure you've already read this post on the Other Board,
 
I don't go to your board. I do, however, receive email, and the word "grilling" was used in one I received today. If that was wrong, I apologize.  


<snip>


As you can see, Ag's initial "invitation" was phrased as if it came directly from you.

Yes, it probably does. I don't really think that slight nuance is of vital importance, is it? Really? On the grander scope of things? And would it have been so tragic I HAD "asked" Ag to post an invitation to you on your board, without doing so myself? I didn't, but I honestly can't see how that would have been a horrible thing.  I'm not trying to "steal" posters from your board, Kwach -- honestly. I have nothing invested in this space. It's just "here." People are free to use it if they wish, but it's not where I go to hook up with those whom I feel most comfortable.


It was met with several responses along the line of, "Why did Owl ask you to do her dirty work? Why doesn't she come and ask us herself if she wants us to go over there? Thanks, but no thanks."
 
Ag never clarified that it was her idea and not yours ... she just let the responses stand ... so whichever of the posters from there came over here, they thought they were coming by your invitation.

Your response, characterizing the women who've chosen to hang out on the Other Board as you have, provoked my "grilling" of Ag as to which version of the "invitation" was the truth. Had we known that the invitation did not come from you, and that you would perceive those who were inticed to come here and voice their opinions as an assault on your new board,


Don't mischaracterize me, please.




perhaps your characterization of them would have made sense. As it stands, it felt like a set-up.


Well, it was not, and it frankly astounds me that the miscommunication has finally come to a point where something so innocent as sharing a completely open board would turn into such a big freakin' deal.

If you have no issue with Ag playing all sides that's certainly your choice.

My relationship with Ag is of my choice, just as yours with her as well as many others, is yours.



There are people who do take issue with it and don't want to continue to be set up in the same way in the future, so we are attempting to clear the air, on our own board, with the person with whom we have an issue. 

I've made the effort to address your "complaints" about the Other Board in person, on your turf. I would appreciate it if you would return the favor and either address your complaints to the Other Board members on their turf, or leave them alone on yours.


I sincerely apologize, but I'll not be going to your board, Kwach. I apologize for not making the trip, but ... on AOL I could filter the ongoing comments some chose to include in their nearly every post about me, and on your board, I can't, so ... again, my apology. I do appreciate your effort in coming here, understand it's just this once, and appreciate that too. Your "once" is more than I can reciprocate, and I acknowledge that.
 
I'm tired of the freakin' wars.


You, Kwach have, I'm sure, a very cool board where you and your partner feel comfort in posting with friends. I have the same thing elsewhere. AOL seemed to be a middle "meeting ground" but I can't go there any more. This board was a spur of the moment creation to fill what, for me, was a momentary void. 

My intention was, again, to avoid the chaos which seemed to swirl around the OTHER board on which I post and THIS time broadcast the availability of the board. I wasn't soliciting posters, just making sure no one thought I was trying to HIDE anything. Clearly, that intention has not been realized, and I'm sorry about that. I don't know what else, how else, I could have avoided conflict, or even that that's even possible at all any more. Perhaps it isn't. 

I'm sorry if the posting of the link to this board created a disruption to your board, and violated your space; sincerely sorry. I promise you that was not my intent, and will never be convinced it was Ag's either.  It's unfortunate that intention doesn't always produce the desired result. I wish it did, because in this instance, at least, there would be no need for this particular dialogue between us.

As for casting aspersions upon the women on your board ... I don't even know who posts there, really -- I know Ag does ... <shrug> I'm not making wholesale slurs against the posters there, Kwach. I know you and I have aquaintances in common, who are free to go where ever they please. If I said anything to suggest otherwise, I apologize for that, as well.
 
Thank you for coming here to speak directly to me. I appreciate it.











-- Edited by Nightowlhoot3 at 15:13, 2008-09-21

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Kwachie

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This is the first, last and only time I will post anything here. I'm sure you've already read this post on the Other Board, but I'm going to put it here, as well, as a rebuttal to this:

Ag very kindly offered to post a link on Kwach's board, and I said: "sure, if you're comfortable doing that."

What the hell is the big deal???
This is an "ISSUE????"

Ag offered to do something helpful-- to everyone, I would presume -- no "sinister" intent on either her part or mine,  and now I hear she's being "grilled" about it??? This "huge" offense of hers??


Someone calling herself "Crockadoodydo" cross-posted something you wrote here, to which I replied, as follows:



Pardon my use of the vernacular, but WTF??

Ag, at this point I am going to ask you to clarify which of these statements is the truth. You posted:

i've been asked to drop a note on this board for nightowl, who has started another board, just a thread, really, to hash out some aol stuff without moderators or the usual fickery that takes place on the aol boards:


http://sunnyliesabunch.activeboard.com/index.spark

she wants friends, enemies, everyone.


Apparently, Owl's story is different, if this is really a post from her board:


Only an "evil-doer" would create chaos and angst by saying: "sure, if you're comfortable doing that" when asked if news of a board which is open to everyone should be shared with a particular group of people.



This implies that posting the "invitation" here was not Owl's idea at all, but yours, and that she merely approved of you doing so if you wanted to.

If her version is true, then why would you come here and say that it was at her request?  This led some people from here (who would otherwise not have known that board existed) to believe they were being asked to go look at her board, and they reacted honestly to it, which led to this:


I'm not "famous" -- it's not me, but rather the news of the arrival of a new "flame board" which attracted the bulk of the attention of the finger waggers -- those same "purists" who camp on this board as "visitors" waiting for something, anything, they can grab and run home to share as "proof" of my amoral character, and make more strong the lines of delineation between themselves, and those they have tried, for years, to paint as their moral inferiors.  

And as you can see, the honored flames here continue to burn bright; awards are given for those who best eviscerate others who don't make the choice to frequent the more peaceful, placid watering holes, where everyone gathers "just to have fun together, and get along."
 
Welcome to Helllllllllllll .........



Somehow that doesn't sound like Owl wanted "friends, enemies, everyone" to come and peruse her board. It doesn't sound like the members of this board were welcome there at all. In fact, it sounds distinctly like they were not welcome unless they were willing to go there and throw their supportive arms around Owl, which is not the same thing as "friends, enemies, everyone" -- and it sounds like those who took the bait are now being ridiculed for accepting the "invitation" you left here.

Now maybe you can see why dropping that little bomb here might have been a crap-a** thing to do, why most of us didn't take the bait, and why I question how you manage to keep a boat in every port without having the whole fleet sunk by a barrage of cannon fire from all sides.

Here's a direct quote from me, which you are invited to scurry back to Owl with:

"Patoooooey."





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Kwach



As you can see, Ag's initial "invitation" was phrased as if it came directly from you. It was met with several responses along the line of, "Why did Owl ask you to do her dirty work? Why doesn't she come and ask us herself if she wants us to go over there? Thanks, but no thanks."
 
Ag never clarified that it was her idea and not yours ... she just let the responses stand ... so whichever of the posters from there came over here, they thought they were coming by your invitation.

Your response, characterizing the women who've chosen to hang out on the Other Board as you have, provoked my "grilling" of Ag as to which version of the "invitation" was the truth. Had we known that the invitation did not come from you, and that you would perceive those who were inticed to come here and voice their opinions as an assault on your new board, perhaps your characterization of them would have made sense. As it stands, it felt like a set-up.

If you have no issue with Ag playing all sides that's certainly your choice. There are people who do take issue with it and don't want to continue to be set up in the same way in the future, so we are attempting to clear the air, on our own board, with the person with whom we have an issue. 

I've made the effort to address your "complaints" about the Other Board in person, on your turf. I would appreciate it if you would return the favor and either address your complaints to the Other Board members on their turf, or leave them alone on yours.

Kwach


PS: It appears on the Preview as if my quote boxes are a bit askew. Can't seem to fix it.

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Anonymous

Date:
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Nightowlhoot3 wrote:

What is it with .... oy...........
.............

Ag and I were talking a day or so ago.

I was saying I figured this board could sort of be maybe one thread on WWET, maybe specific to censorship, only without the vanishing posts and lock outs, where I suddenly couldn't post any more. I said anyone who wanted to, could post here -- that I would welcome it. I specifically mentioned Lynn and Sunny, because I would have liked to have had the opportunity to finish the conversations I was having with them. I also mentioned everyone else who I know to post on WWET. Ag very kindly offered to post a link on Kwach's board, and I said: "sure, if you're comfortable doing that."

What the hell is the big deal???

This is an "ISSUE????"

Ag offered to do something helpful-- to everyone, I would presume -- no "sinister" intent on either her part or mine,  and now I hear she's being "grilled" about it??? This "huge" offense of hers??

For crying out loud.

What the hell???

Is there really such a freakin' scarcity of issues and targets that Ag now has to get yanked around???

Ag has done NOTHING "sinister" IMO. NOTHING. To try to suggest something otherwise.... just stinks. I swear, some people would look at a slice of pie being offered them, and find fault with the damn color of the plate, if it served their "cause."
What you fail to understand is that nobody cares about your personal drama anymore. Everyone has been beaten and censored on WWET by your toadies, and there isn't an ounce of compassion left for your expulsion your highness. You have hit the bottom of the morality barrel. How does that feel? Hypocrite.



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Nightowlhoot3


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What is it with .... oy...........
.............

Ag and I were talking a day or so ago.

I was saying I figured this board could sort of be maybe one thread on WWET, maybe specific to censorship, only without the vanishing posts and lock outs, where I suddenly couldn't post any more. I said anyone who wanted to, could post here -- that I would welcome it. I specifically mentioned Lynn and Sunny, because I would have liked to have had the opportunity to finish the conversations I was having with them. I also mentioned everyone else who I know to post on WWET. Ag very kindly offered to post a link on Kwach's board, and I said: "sure, if you're comfortable doing that."

What the hell is the big deal???

This is an "ISSUE????"

Ag offered to do something helpful-- to everyone, I would presume -- no "sinister" intent on either her part or mine,  and now I hear she's being "grilled" about it??? This "huge" offense of hers??

For crying out loud.

What the hell???

Is there really such a freakin' scarcity of issues and targets that Ag now has to get yanked around???

Ag has done NOTHING "sinister" IMO. NOTHING. To try to suggest something otherwise.... just stinks. I swear, some people would look at a slice of pie being offered them, and find fault with the damn color of the plate, if it served their "cause."

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